General RE LEE
Well-Known Member
That's what she said
Recoil Bedding Attempt: Part Deux
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That's what she said
Justice1327
Well-Known Member
I switched to MarineTex a long time ago. I have tried just about everything even JB Weld. I've had good results with all of them. All of them showed some sort of improvement in precision and accuracy.
Many years ago I started using the brass tubing , mostly because it was easy to cut to length, and the threads on the tubing gives something for the compound to adhere to inside your stock.
here is a question, and I'm curious to see what everyone's inputs are. Is it better to bed your action with the barrel on, or if you have the capability, remove the barrel and bed just the action?
I have tried it both ways and I have tried betting the front 1.5 or 2 inches of the barrel, I've done testing to where I will not bed the first part of the barrel . shoot it extensively then come back and bed just the 2" of the barrel and see if it makes any difference. My test show when you have a heavy barrel like a M24, MTU, heavy varmint profiles it helps to bed the front 2 inches of the barrel.
I personally have not noticed any difference in bedding just the action versus a barreled action.
Many years ago I started using the brass tubing , mostly because it was easy to cut to length, and the threads on the tubing gives something for the compound to adhere to inside your stock.
here is a question, and I'm curious to see what everyone's inputs are. Is it better to bed your action with the barrel on, or if you have the capability, remove the barrel and bed just the action?
I have tried it both ways and I have tried betting the front 1.5 or 2 inches of the barrel, I've done testing to where I will not bed the first part of the barrel . shoot it extensively then come back and bed just the 2" of the barrel and see if it makes any difference. My test show when you have a heavy barrel like a M24, MTU, heavy varmint profiles it helps to bed the front 2 inches of the barrel.
I personally have not noticed any difference in bedding just the action versus a barreled action.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I've read where guys will move a slice of playing cards around to see if there's a spot that relief bedding will help. I've no doubt it works as I've had a number of factory rifles with relief bedding that shot extremely good. Interesting about the mtu barrel. It definitely is a lot of weight sticking out there and one would think it could cause stress. I'd guess a guy could try the playing card trick for that as well
Justice1327
Well-Known Member
My use of a card was at the forend of the stock underneath a thin barrel to give it upward pressure. Later, I found Stocks by Fajen that had two bumps that would come in contact with the barrel to give it upward pressure.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I've heard the same as far as pulling the barrel before bedding. Not that hard to do really and I can definitely see where a heavy target barrel could introduce pressure although I have the action and the barrel in a vise upside down and lay the bedded stock down onto it so this seems to nullify that but I'm definitely always open to learning
Thanks for that input Justice. I don't think that removing the barrel would be advisable as you need to make sure it is in the same axis as the barrel channel.
Barrel harmonics can vary. I have a 31" unturned blank on a Rem 700 that is chambered in 6 XC that shoots tiny bug holes, Ezel tuner, 108g Bergers, H4350, R#17 with the Barrel completely free-floated. Have another 6 BRX that is the same with a 28" unturned blank, barrel completely free-floated on a 700. I have a 30", 243 AI turn neck, zero freebore, 12T Hart that liked to have 2" of the barrel supported with bedding. I assume that the bedding under the barrel is acting to "tune" the harmonics in some fashion. Unbedded barrel shot in the low 3's, and bedded barrel shot in the very low 2's and high 1's, RAS Tuner/Brake with 68g Berger, my own 70g Low Drag at 3850. Nosler 70g Ballistic tip and 70g TNT shoot in the 2's.
I am trying a different method now to see how it would work. The focus of the new method is to let the action float in the bedding, completely stress-free.
To begin with, before making modifications to the action area, I free-float the barrel. Next, I pour two pillars(pads) of bedding compound to support the barrel in the action's existing location. The poured pillars are about 10" or so apart. I bed these two pillars(pads), tightening down the action screws. Next, I install pillars in the stock and dig out material around the action in the stock to where NO material is touching the stock, neither are the pillars. The action is completely floating.
Next, I put the bedding material in the stock, insert the action into the bedding, and put large elastic bands around the forearm of the stock. This method uses the pillars to set the height of the action in the stock, with the pillars(pads) acting as a V Block. When the bands are tightened around the forearm, seating the barrel barely above the pillars, bedding material oozes out around the action and on top of the pillars. I do insert the action screws(Stock Makers Screws), start them in the threads, and that is all...this ensures alignment. I engage two threads on the Action screws(Stock Maker's screws).
When the action is removed from the bedding, the pillars that were poured to support the barrel are removed. It helps to put a piece of Thick packaging tape with some release agent on the tape the pillars for easy removal. Of course, a release agent is on the barrel when the pillars are poured.
Again, the pillars in the forearm act as a V Block allowing the action to float in the bedding without any stress at all.
I just finished my 22 PPC, 6 Dasher, and 280 AI using this method. The 22 PPC, Krieger 12T, is the most accurate rifle I have ever had in my hands, shooting groups in the zero's and ones, Stolle Panda. The 280 AI, Rem 700, X Caliber 9T barrel, started shooting tiny bug hole groups with fire-formed PMC 30/06 brass with 175g LRAB, imr 7828 with Fed 210's within 30 shots. I have not shot the Dasher with the Harrells tuner yet.
Some years ago, I read of this method in Precision Shooting Magazine, there was quite a discussion among a lot of benchrest gunsmiths of that time on the various Stress-Free bedding methods. One old gunsmith shared this method when he got terminal cancer, may God Rest his Soul.
After the bedding job and the gun assembled, I attached a magnetic base and indicator to the barrel, putting the tip of the indicator on the barrel....all 3 guns have zero .001 movement when tightening and loosening the front guard screw.
Lots of ways to skin a cat, this is just one tool in the toolbox. As long as you are checking the bedding job with the finger at the end of the forearm, pressing against the barrel, or a magnetic base attached to the barrel with its indicator needle on the stock, with either method showing zero movements when tightening/loosening that front guard screw, your method, whatever it is should be good to go. If you feel movement, give it it a skim coat. I have known several renowned gunsmiths that gave skim coats as a matter of practice, and these gunsmiths had a backlog of over a year, and that was 15+ years ago.
For the hobbyists doing their own bedding, the trick of tightening and loosening that front guard screw is a game changer in getting the most accuracy out of your outfit. Another game changer is bedding those aluminum bedding block stocks to get groups down in the very low 2's and smaller. Once in a while, I have got lucky with an Al bedding block stock, but these stocks are high-end stocks where special attention was given in the QC of how the machined blocks were machined. Some of the V Blocks in the stocks are machined incorrectly, and this is an understatement. Assume nothing, use the finger up against the barrel, and tighten and loosen the front guard screw. You can draw a line across the guard screw to get it back in the same position it was in when you started.
Barrel harmonics can vary. I have a 31" unturned blank on a Rem 700 that is chambered in 6 XC that shoots tiny bug holes, Ezel tuner, 108g Bergers, H4350, R#17 with the Barrel completely free-floated. Have another 6 BRX that is the same with a 28" unturned blank, barrel completely free-floated on a 700. I have a 30", 243 AI turn neck, zero freebore, 12T Hart that liked to have 2" of the barrel supported with bedding. I assume that the bedding under the barrel is acting to "tune" the harmonics in some fashion. Unbedded barrel shot in the low 3's, and bedded barrel shot in the very low 2's and high 1's, RAS Tuner/Brake with 68g Berger, my own 70g Low Drag at 3850. Nosler 70g Ballistic tip and 70g TNT shoot in the 2's.
I am trying a different method now to see how it would work. The focus of the new method is to let the action float in the bedding, completely stress-free.
To begin with, before making modifications to the action area, I free-float the barrel. Next, I pour two pillars(pads) of bedding compound to support the barrel in the action's existing location. The poured pillars are about 10" or so apart. I bed these two pillars(pads), tightening down the action screws. Next, I install pillars in the stock and dig out material around the action in the stock to where NO material is touching the stock, neither are the pillars. The action is completely floating.
Next, I put the bedding material in the stock, insert the action into the bedding, and put large elastic bands around the forearm of the stock. This method uses the pillars to set the height of the action in the stock, with the pillars(pads) acting as a V Block. When the bands are tightened around the forearm, seating the barrel barely above the pillars, bedding material oozes out around the action and on top of the pillars. I do insert the action screws(Stock Makers Screws), start them in the threads, and that is all...this ensures alignment. I engage two threads on the Action screws(Stock Maker's screws).
When the action is removed from the bedding, the pillars that were poured to support the barrel are removed. It helps to put a piece of Thick packaging tape with some release agent on the tape the pillars for easy removal. Of course, a release agent is on the barrel when the pillars are poured.
Again, the pillars in the forearm act as a V Block allowing the action to float in the bedding without any stress at all.
I just finished my 22 PPC, 6 Dasher, and 280 AI using this method. The 22 PPC, Krieger 12T, is the most accurate rifle I have ever had in my hands, shooting groups in the zero's and ones, Stolle Panda. The 280 AI, Rem 700, X Caliber 9T barrel, started shooting tiny bug hole groups with fire-formed PMC 30/06 brass with 175g LRAB, imr 7828 with Fed 210's within 30 shots. I have not shot the Dasher with the Harrells tuner yet.
Some years ago, I read of this method in Precision Shooting Magazine, there was quite a discussion among a lot of benchrest gunsmiths of that time on the various Stress-Free bedding methods. One old gunsmith shared this method when he got terminal cancer, may God Rest his Soul.
After the bedding job and the gun assembled, I attached a magnetic base and indicator to the barrel, putting the tip of the indicator on the barrel....all 3 guns have zero .001 movement when tightening and loosening the front guard screw.
Lots of ways to skin a cat, this is just one tool in the toolbox. As long as you are checking the bedding job with the finger at the end of the forearm, pressing against the barrel, or a magnetic base attached to the barrel with its indicator needle on the stock, with either method showing zero movements when tightening/loosening that front guard screw, your method, whatever it is should be good to go. If you feel movement, give it it a skim coat. I have known several renowned gunsmiths that gave skim coats as a matter of practice, and these gunsmiths had a backlog of over a year, and that was 15+ years ago.
For the hobbyists doing their own bedding, the trick of tightening and loosening that front guard screw is a game changer in getting the most accuracy out of your outfit. Another game changer is bedding those aluminum bedding block stocks to get groups down in the very low 2's and smaller. Once in a while, I have got lucky with an Al bedding block stock, but these stocks are high-end stocks where special attention was given in the QC of how the machined blocks were machined. Some of the V Blocks in the stocks are machined incorrectly, and this is an understatement. Assume nothing, use the finger up against the barrel, and tighten and loosen the front guard screw. You can draw a line across the guard screw to get it back in the same position it was in when you started.
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nealm66
Well-Known Member
I've heard that a shorter barrel is easier to tune and always wondered if this is where relief bedding up a ways on the barrel channel comes into play more so than taking stress off the action in a sporter barrel type setup
Neal, on my Rem 700's, unturned blank, Max Heavy varmint that are 27-31" long, I only found one that got a better "tune" with 4" of bedding in front of the recoil lug. The bedding under the barrel acts as a Tuner that is NON adjustable.
Flimsy actions may benefit more with bedding under the barrel, but I don't know first hand. I had a Sako A1 with a 24" light varmint contour that was completely free floated to the lug, it shot in the 2's
Today, if the barrel was not tuning the way I thought it should, I would add a Ezel tuner, RAS tuner, or Harrells tuner before I bed under the barrel. It has taken little work to tune bug hole loads with the above tuners. I am going to help a friend tune his 308 with a EC(Eric Cortina) tuner brake when weather permits, we load at the rifle range.
Flimsy actions may benefit more with bedding under the barrel, but I don't know first hand. I had a Sako A1 with a 24" light varmint contour that was completely free floated to the lug, it shot in the 2's
Today, if the barrel was not tuning the way I thought it should, I would add a Ezel tuner, RAS tuner, or Harrells tuner before I bed under the barrel. It has taken little work to tune bug hole loads with the above tuners. I am going to help a friend tune his 308 with a EC(Eric Cortina) tuner brake when weather permits, we load at the rifle range.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
I use tuners as well with very good success
The first Eric Cortina tuner is just a threaded sleeve. This sleeve is probably the most duplicated tuner on the market.
In the late 70s and very early 80s, I was running unturned blanks on my p, dog rifles, easy to set back the barrel into fresh lands. I had my gunsmith make a large sleeve that was 4" long and 1.75" in dia to fit on my 1.250" unturned blank barrel. I had him install three opposing tipped set screws. I added the weight, then found out that when I moved that piece the slightest bit, I could tune the load down into the 1's. I had this set up on half a dozen rifles, with no increments on the tuner or barrel...crude. I used a crude but exact method of Measuring from the end of the barrel with a 12" dial caliper for a reading on the position of the tuner.
Later on, Limbsaver came out with these rubber doughnuts to tune barrels with. I have used those large rubber doughnuts on some factory sporter rifles with great success, especially a Savage 30/30 pump!
Things that are different do not go over well. Pride of ownership vs practical use usually wins out.
Tuners will not make up for an action that is out of bed, as a rule. We have tuned a number of Browning BARs with BOSS systems on them to shoot tiny groups.
In the late 70s and very early 80s, I was running unturned blanks on my p, dog rifles, easy to set back the barrel into fresh lands. I had my gunsmith make a large sleeve that was 4" long and 1.75" in dia to fit on my 1.250" unturned blank barrel. I had him install three opposing tipped set screws. I added the weight, then found out that when I moved that piece the slightest bit, I could tune the load down into the 1's. I had this set up on half a dozen rifles, with no increments on the tuner or barrel...crude. I used a crude but exact method of Measuring from the end of the barrel with a 12" dial caliper for a reading on the position of the tuner.
Later on, Limbsaver came out with these rubber doughnuts to tune barrels with. I have used those large rubber doughnuts on some factory sporter rifles with great success, especially a Savage 30/30 pump!
Things that are different do not go over well. Pride of ownership vs practical use usually wins out.
Tuners will not make up for an action that is out of bed, as a rule. We have tuned a number of Browning BARs with BOSS systems on them to shoot tiny groups.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
So you don't think the relief bedding would act like a shorter barrel as far as tuning?
General RE LEE
Well-Known Member
Range?
General RE LEE
Well-Known Member
100 yards. Still testing it out right now.
