Question #2

[Varmint Hunter]

I have a new set of Redding type S dies for the .308. My intention was to push the shoulders of a fired case back about .001".

New Lapua cases measure 1.616" with the StoneyPoint headspace gauge.
Once fired cases measure about 1.618"

No matter how I adjust the die I can not push the shoulder back to 1.617", as I intended. If I lower the die enough the measurement actually gets longer. Cases actually grew to 1.6195".

OK - What is causing this problem?

 

[winmagman]

Are you using it with the expander button still installed? Could be a possible cause.

Chris

 

[ss7mm]

With a tapered case even though the bushing is sizing the neck for quite a bit of the handle movement, the die is making contact with the fireformed case sidewalls before the shoulder area makes contact. Moving the handle more squeezes the case walls and the brass has to go somewhere so it is probably growing in length.

If it was me, I'd keep moving the die down in very small increments and measure each time. There's a pretty good chance that the die will size the sidewalls and then move the shoulder back when it makes contact. Be sure to check overall case length when you're done.

 

[dwm]

deleted

 

[goodgrouper]

I have a new set of Redding type S dies for the .308. My intention was to push the shoulders of a fired case back about .001".

New Lapua cases measure 1.616" with the StoneyPoint headspace gauge.
Once fired cases measure about 1.618"

No matter how I adjust the die I can not push the shoulder back to 1.617", as I intended. If I lower the die enough the measurement actually gets longer. Cases actually grew to 1.6195".

OK - What is causing this problem?

I suppose you've screwed the die down onto the shellholder and it still won't bump the shoulder back .001"? If so, your problem is very common--even normal. Most dies will actually make the headspace longer right up until the point where they actually start to push the shoulder back. The reason is because the web is getting squeezed and the case is stretching upwards but the die is too long to actually bump the shoulder back. This is why I use headspace gauges everytime I set up my FL dies so I know exactly how much I need to adjust the dies.
If the die is too long, you have two choices. You can either have the bottom of the die cut off .010"-.015" or have your shellholder cut down the same measurement.

I have had about 25 dies cut off before I realized that it would be easier just to buy a whole new set of shell holders and just have them cut off instead. It is kinda spendy up front ($6.50 each) but it will pay off in the long run if you load lots of calibers.

My guess is that your die is just about to the point where it will start bumping the shoulder back but it just needs another .005" to make it work.

 

[WAMBO]

Have you tried raising the ram to the top then screwing the die down until it touches the shell holder then lowering the ram a little then turn the die down another 1/4 turn.
I've had to do this with a few different cartridges I have to get the desired shoulder bump I was looking for.
Redding also sells a set of shell holders that you can use to adjust the headspace, kinda pricey but might be what your looking for if nothing else works.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=525874
As goodgrouper suggests grinding the bottom of the die off about .010" or the top of the shellholder works too, been there done that.

Wayne aka WAMBO

 

[Pdvdh]

If you've bottomed the die out on the shell holder and still can't set the shoulder back then what goodgrouper said is the solution. I just had to lathe off 0.010" on the bottom of a full length reloading die this past week. The bottom of the die made contact with the shell holder before the shoulder made contact in the die. No problems after shaving a little off the bottom of the die.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

To address a few things that I did not mention:

No - I am not using the neck expander on the decapping shaft, never do

I eventually lowered the die until it touched the shell holder and actually was able to go a bit farther when the press was under the pressure of sizing the case. No luck though, this is where the case really grew.

I don't have the ability to machine down the die or the shell holder. I could use a set of redding shellholders or I might send the die and a few fired cases to Redding and see what they suggest.

Thanks for all of your suggestions.

 

[LewisH]

I didn't "machine down" the shell holder, I just ground the top side down incrementally on a wheel (checking with a micrometer to make sure it was even) until the case shoulder was pushed back far enough for the bolt to close easily on a chambered case.

I tried the Redding shell holder set, and the thinnest holder is still a mite too thick to do the job sufficiently, but maybe it would work for your case.

 

[goodgrouper]

I could use a set of redding shellholders or I might send the die and a few fired cases to Redding and see what they suggest.

Thanks for all of your suggestions.

THe Redding shellholders don't fix this problem. In fact, they make it worse!! They go thicker which INCREASES headspace. Unfortunately, no one makes shellholders that are thinner which is what you need.

All you have to find is a machinist or someone with a lathe that can chuck up your die and cut off a few thou. Or someone with a drill press that can cut down your shellholder with a 1" cutter or somthing the right size.
Redding can do it but that might take awhile. Or maybe not since you are near their facility-relatively speaking!

 

[Pdvdh]

You could probably use a sanding disk to remove 0.010" off the bottom of your die. I know it sounds ugly but it really shouldn't hurt the functionality of your die. Heck, I bet you could even hand hold the die and drag the base across some medium to fine grit sand paper on a flat surface and remove 0.005" to 0.010". You shouldn't have to remove very much, unless your chamber has very tight headspace. It doesn't really matter if the base of your FL resizing die is exactly flat or not after the material is removed. You just need to remove enough to allow the shoulder to contact in the die to set your shoulder back 1 thousanth. I used a lathe because I had access to one but if I hadn't I would have removed a little from the base with a sanding disk.

Goodgrouper's right again on the Redding shellholder set. I have a set of those that I hadn't used and when I tried them I realized they were going the wrong way, increasing the headspace from case head to shoulder rather than decreasing it.

 

[Buffalobob]

A belt sander upside down works fine to grind the die. It does not matter if it is even because you are not going to bottom the die out on the shell holder. You are going to adjust the die and lock the ring.

This is a very common issue with belted magnum dies and trying to get the case to resize right above the belt.

 

[Kevin Cram]

I do this all the time to Redding Dies, it's very common. Most of my customers can't believe that you would have to modify a die, they think it should be right from Redding. So do I but, all most all of the Redding dies I've used have had to have the bottoms ground off to bump the shoulder back. I use my benchgrinder with the fine wheel. Take all the guts of the die off, meaasure th o.a.l. of the die and grind off the bottom while rotating the die. I start by removing about .010" - .015" Use some 400 grit paper to remove any burr just on the inside edge of the die. Work your die down slowly as you don't want to oversize the brass. .002" shoulder to base bump from what it measured as a fired case is enough. Also make sure the primer is below flush on the fired case so it's not giving you a false reading.