I've been using the Sitka mountain and timberline pants. Basically (this is just me probably not what anyone else would do) I wear the mountain pants for archery season or another words warmer weather. If cooler or wet I will use the timberline pants. Cold weather I will add a pair of merino wool. Add a pair of gators in wet weather. If I'm not mistaken the timberline have water proof knees and seat area. I've hunted in pretty good rain storms and snow storms and never been wet. I hunt in Eastern Oregon and Western Idaho. So not sure how my setup would work in some of the areas that can really get wet. They seem to run pretty true to size. And seem to be pretty tough. Although I'm not going through blackberry bushes and etc. Not sure if this helps or not. Good luck with your decision.