OK.....I am a believer. 308/RL-17/208 AMAX = sweet spot

[GrumpyGuns]

Nice. I will keep those powders in mind when I order my bbl. Cant wait.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

This is a old thread. Since the inception of this thread CFE 223 has been introduced. It is a real game changer. Absolute better in most all thecategories that we judge powders by. Muzzle pressures, Internal Pressures, How Temp Sensitive it is, Better ES ,Good Velocities, and I NEVER clean the barrel. I use it in Bolt guns and the Auto AR-10s as well as the FNAR. It seems to be less sensitive to bullet seating depths and the different weights and ogives of the numerous bullets. I would recommend that people give it a try along with RL 17 to compare the two.

 

[elkaholic]

I have just started using RL-17 myself. I am using it in .308 with Berger 185g Classic Hunter Hybrids for F-Class and have had excellent results.


In regards to your question, my understanding is that RL-17 offers advantages with heavy bullets in any cartridge that does its best work with powders in the 4350 to 4831 burn rate range. That especially seems to be true in cartridges that show compressed charges of those powders with heavy bullets. I am basing this mostly on what I have read since RL-17 was introduced, rather than extensive experience.

Based on what I have read, I would say that 7-08 with 160g+ bullets would be a good application for RL-17. I'm not sure about .260. I don't think it would do anything special for you in .243 because that cartridge does its best work with slower powders.

I would like to try it in 30-06 with 215g Berger Hybrids, in 338-06AI with 225 to 250g bullets, and in 375 H&H with 300g and 350g bullets. In the 375, I am having such good results with H4350 and 300g bullets that I am having trouble finding a reason to try RL-17. I may feel differently when I step up to 350g bullets, or I might do it just to satisfy my curiosity.

In short, my thinking is that any cartridge that works well with H4350, but runs just a bit short of capacity before reaching max pressures is an excellent candidate for RL-17. I guess I will see if my thinking on that evolves with further testing.

I think this is accurate as are most of the other posts. I found RL17 and IMR 4831, yes IMR. to be the two top loads in my 300 Sherman with 190's. Both would exceed 3000' but RL17 with less pressure. Both were very accurate! It took 60 grs. of 17 and 63 of 4831 for the same velocity. It took veryn ear the same amount of H4350 for the same pressure but RL17 had considerably better velocity. I did think it was a little temp sensitive....................Rich

 

[mmh]

Would RL-17 be OK in a piston AR-10 ( Sig716)? What would the velocity be out of an 18" barrel?

 

[Sargesniper]

WOW!

After all the buzz lately about RL-17 in a 308 and me being the 308 nut that I am just could not resist the temptation to go out and see what it is all about. I loaded up some 168 AMAX's, 200 SGK's and 208 AMAX's for testing the other day and went to the range today to see what would become of this. Well all I can say is that I am encouraged.

First the 168's. I loaded up 3 groups of 3 + two foul shots for the clean barrel. Loads were as follows. 48.0, 49.0, 50.0 grains of RL-17 under the 168 AMAX loaded to 2.840 OACL and .020" off the lands. The velocity for the 48.0 load was right around 2800 FPS. Velocity for the 49.0 charge was just over 2850 and the velocity for the 50.0 charge was 2903. Yes you read that right. 2903 with absolutely NO pressure signs whatsoever. The bolt lift was if there was a virgin case in the chamber and the primer had no crater, no excessive flatness and there were no marks on the base whatsoever. This load also group 0.3 MOA. It gets even better.

Next I moved on to the 208 AMAX. I only loaded 3 bullets total just to test velocity. After the test, I could make a decision as to where to go from there. I started low with 45.0 and jumped to 47.0 and then jumped to 49.0 grains. The first (45.0) was a dissapointing 2484 FPS. After the second shot things were looking up with 2609 FPS. The extraction and cases/primers were all flawless so I opted to torch off the 49.0 load. Jenny belched out that dag gum 208 grain AMAX at an astounding 2714 FPS. After seeing the chrony I thought "Oh boy....this bolt is going to be sticky...." Much to my utter amazment, the bolt lift was just as easy as with any other normal load I have ever fired. No case markings and no primer crater ZILCH! The amazing part about this is that all 3 of those 208's that were 2 grains between them for a total of 4 grain from start to finish, repeat after me......4 grains of difference, the group was under 1.200 MOA. UNDER 1.200 MOA! This opens a whole lot more possibilities.

Four questions for you ME.
1-What chronograph are you using?
2- What elevation are you shooting at"
3- What was the temp. at the time?
4- What is the barrel length of and the rifle you have?
I would like to see those speeds out of mine. I do not shoot any heavier than 175 gr. If 2800 - 2900 is feasible and safe with 167 - 175 gr. projectiles this may open up to a long range hunting .308 rifle for a lot of folks. I look forward to future posts on this matter. Very interesting to say the least. I have 1 lb. of 17 in the cabinet un-opened that I was going to try in my .260. I can only imagine the velocity as it has a 30" barrel.
I'm wondering how the .308 groups at these velocities. Test and post please.
Thanks .....Sargesniper

 

[Sargesniper]

Four questions for you ME.
1-What chronograph are you using?
2- What elevation are you shooting at"
3- What was the temp. at the time?
4- What is the barrel length of and the rifle you have?
I would like to see those speeds out of mine. I do not shoot any heavier than 175 gr. If 2800 - 2900 is feasible and safe with 167 - 175 gr. projectiles this may open up to a long range hunting .308 rifle for a lot of folks. I look forward to future posts on this matter. Very interesting to say the least. I have 1 lb. of 17 in the cabinet un-opened that I was going to try in my .260. I can only imagine the velocity as it has a 30" barrel.
I'm wondering how the .308 groups at these velocities. Test and post please.
Thanks .....Sargesniper

Sorry, I just noticed how old your post is. Would still like to hear from you though.

 

[AZShooter]

The good threads hang around.

Montana Marine has done extensive testing with RL-17 and heavy bullets in 308.

I have several boxes of 230 Berger hybrid match target bullets which I used with my 300 RUM. Decided to try them in my "308" with RL-17.

My 308 is a wildcat. I used a 30 BR reamer and went deeper to headspace as a 308. 30 degree shoulder with less body taper. .0105" necks. Lapua brass. Seated 230s to kiss rifling. Top load was 46 gr with velocity of 2460 fps from a 22" barrel. Wind drift at 500 yds is quite impressive for such a slow bullet.

Have used RL-17 ever since German Salazar and Bob Jensen wrote about it several years ago. Alliant Reloder 17

It has worked accurately with high velocities with a variety of cartridges:

6mm Rem 24" barrel 100 gr partition at 3300 fps
6mm-284 24" barrel 95 gr berger classic at 3465 fps
257 Roberts 26" barrel 115 Berger VLD at 2980 fps
284 Win 23" barrel 150 nosler bt at 3100
7 Rem mag 24" barrel 150 nos bt for 3250 fps.
300 WSM 22" barrel 230 berger target match at 2720 fps
338 RCM 22" barrel 225 accubond at 2750 fps
338 RCM 30" barrel 300 gr berger hybrid target at 2550 fps

 

[Michael Eichele]

Four questions for you ME.
1-What chronograph are you using?
2- What elevation are you shooting at"
3- What was the temp. at the time?
4- What is the barrel length of and the rifle you have?
I would like to see those speeds out of mine. I do not shoot any heavier than 175 gr. If 2800 - 2900 is feasible and safe with 167 - 175 gr. projectiles this may open up to a long range hunting .308 rifle for a lot of folks. I look forward to future posts on this matter. Very interesting to say the least. I have 1 lb. of 17 in the cabinet un-opened that I was going to try in my .260. I can only imagine the velocity as it has a 30" barrel.
I'm wondering how the .308 groups at these velocities. Test and post please.
Thanks .....Sargesniper

1: Shooting Chrony
2: As close to sea level as possible without getting wet
3: Was early March so likely around 35-45 degrees
4: 26" 11x

I find that for 168-185 grains, VV N540 is fabulous. 2850 with the 178 amax is a breeze in my 26" barrels. It takes 50 grains of 17 to get the 168 up to 2900. It only takes 46-48 N540 to get the 168 vld up to 2950 and it settles in the case much better so it's not such a compressed load. Compressed loads are the nature of the beast when trying to get 200-215+ bullets up to impressive speeds but it doesn't need to be that way for 165-185s. 540 works with 190-210s but it's a bit too fast. N550 works well too but 46 grains of it gets pretty warm under the 208 and velocities are lower than with R17.

All things considered, I've moved away from R17 and N powders for the heavies. I'm sold on the use of H4350 in the Palma case. I loose about 100'sec with the 210s over R17 but it's been accurate in multiple barrels, is temp stable and the extreme spreads are stupid low. Pressure signs are non existent even with powder up to the neck under 215s. I'm getting 2600+ with 210s and H4350. 2600 with 210s in a 308 is nothing to sneeze at. When I run the numbers with the 210ABLR at 2600'sec (.650g1), 5000' and 60 degrees where I do most of my hunting, the numbers are amazing.

PLEASE start at lower charge weights than any you see here and work up.

 

[Sargesniper]

The good threads hang around.

Montana Marine has done extensive testing with RL-17 and heavy bullets in 308.

I have several boxes of 230 Berger hybrid match target bullets which I used with my 300 RUM. Decided to try them in my "308" with RL-17.

My 308 is a wildcat. I used a 30 BR reamer and went deeper to headspace as a 308. 30 degree shoulder with less body taper. .0105" necks. Lapua brass. Seated 230s to kiss rifling. Top load was 46 gr with velocity of 2460 fps from a 22" barrel. Wind drift at 500 yds is quite impressive for such a slow bullet.

Have used RL-17 ever since German Salazar and Bob Jensen wrote about it several years ago. Alliant Reloder 17

It has worked accurately with high velocities with a variety of cartridges:

6mm Rem 24" barrel 100 gr partition at 3300 fps
6mm-284 24" barrel 95 gr berger classic at 3465 fps
257 Roberts 26" barrel 115 Berger VLD at 2980 fps
284 Win 23" barrel 150 nosler bt at 3100
7 Rem mag 24" barrel 150 nos bt for 3250 fps.
300 WSM 22" barrel 230 berger target match at 2720 fps
338 RCM 22" barrel 225 accubond at 2750 fps
338 RCM 30" barrel 300 gr berger hybrid target at 2550 fps

Thanks AZ. What kind of accuracy in the .308? I have Var. barrels in 24" and 26" so I should get decent vel. also. I'm not so much on speed as I am on accuracy. If it will not shoot I don't load it.

I wonder about barrel life also. It is known that a .308 is extremely easy on barrels but I am concerned at those velocities. These rifles are factory barrels and shoot extremely well for me with what I am loading now. Do not want to mess up a good thing.
Thanks ......... SARGESNIPER

 

[Sargesniper]

1: Shooting Chrony
2: As close to sea level as possible without getting wet
3: Was early March so likely around 35-45 degrees
4: 26" 11x

I find that for 168-185 grains, VV N540 is fabulous. 2850 with the 178 amax is a breeze in my 26" barrels. It takes 50 grains of 17 to get the 168 up to 2900. It only takes 46-48 N540 to get the 168 vld up to 2950 and it settles in the case much better so it's not such a compressed load. Compressed loads are the nature of the beast when trying to get 200-215+ bullets up to impressive speeds but it doesn't need to be that way for 165-185s. 540 works with 190-210s but it's a bit too fast. N550 works well too but 46 grains of it gets pretty warm under the 208 and velocities are lower than with R17.

All things considered, I've moved away from R17 and N powders for the heavies. I'm sold on the use of H4350 in the Palma case. I loose about 100'sec with the 210s over R17 but it's been accurate in multiple barrels, is temp stable and the extreme spreads are stupid low. Pressure signs are non existent even with powder up to the neck under 215s. I'm getting 2600+ with 210s and H4350. 2600 with 210s in a 308 is nothing to sneeze at. When I run the numbers with the 210ABLR at 2600'sec (.650g1), 5000' and 60 degrees where I do most of my hunting, the numbers are amazing.

PLEASE start at lower charge weights than any you see here and work up.

+ 1 on low start. Always do that anyway even when changing 1 thing in the load. I have all the powders you mention plus a lot you didn't. N-550 has shot extremely well from the two I have. Very tight groups from 100 - 300 YDS. I have only shot one group in the 1's but many in the 2's and 3's.
No custom barrels, just var. contour Rem. 700 factory.

I also shoot at very low altitude, ( + 25' ) according to my GPS. What State are you in? I'm in LA.
13 miles from Baton Rouge.
Have you ever considered using Hornady's Superformance? I've seen some very impressive speed in a .260 with the 123 gr. bullets. Been thinking about it for a while in a .308. It meters like sand and I have not seen any pressure signs. The accuracy is something to write home about also. I have seen upwards of 3100 with a 123 gr. Scenar.
Thanks for your reply in advance. ...... SARGESNIPER

 

[AZShooter]

Sargesniper,

I didn't pursue the 30BR/308 load past the original workup. The seating depth had the 230s lightly into the rifling making it a single shot proposition. I shot a cluster of 10 that was 5/8" dia at 100 yds.

 

[Sargesniper]

Sargesniper,

I didn't pursue the 30BR/308 load past the original workup. The seating depth had the 230s lightly into the rifling making it a single shot proposition. I shot a cluster of 10 that was 5/8" dia at 100 yds.

I would think the recoil on a 230 gr. would be stout in my rifles. Not that I'm that sensitive to recoil but it can be distracting. I would be more prone toward the 208 A-Max out of all that you mentioned.

If you tried them what kind of accuracy did you get with them? I am hoping to get out to 600 yds. in the near future. Thanks in advance. ............... SARGESNIPER