Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
Done. Survey taken.
NonSportsman Dominate Montana FWP Wolf Meeting
- Thread starter MtPockets
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In Colorado, hunters are largely against wolf reintroduction. I don't believe the effort to manage our tag allocations to nonresidents is attempting to use wolves as a wedge issue. Any animosity towards nonresidents is mostly due to overcrowding and point creep due to too many people in the hunting game here. It's not personal although it is obviously taken that way by nonresidents. It's really about our own quality hunting experiences having significantly diminished. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread just felt there need to be some clarification.
Regarding your question it can't hurt to contact Colorado Parks and Wildlife and ask them how your voice may be heard.
Perhaps. Yet I have a different perspective. There is no hope to be had in men. The fact that there is no evidence at all that anything anyone has done in the past 40 years on wolf reintroduction has had any effect on whether they've done it or not.
I'm not complacent at all. When a battle needs to be fought in my life, I go to the ONLY ONE equipped to fight the battle and let Him do it. If there's a work that must be done by me in that plan, then I do it. The victory will not be of my doing, but there will be victory all the same.
All this about fighting against these people. None of us have been able to stop them, and everyone can go comment and vote hard and go after these people as much as you like... the outcome of this will be no different than the past 40 years. They'll put the wolves in there. Just watch and see. They'll prohibit us from shooting them, and destroy our entire lives if we do, and it won't matter what the wolves do or who they hurt in the process.
Go ahead, convince me I'm wrong. Convince me that it hasn't happened like that every time before this. I really want someone to put forth a logical fact-based accounting of victories we've had against apex-predator introductions in my lifetime. I'm anxiously awaiting to be proven wrong about this. As I see it, the problems are only progressively worse, not better.
I don't care about your feelings. I'm talking about reality and what is... not what we'd have it be, but what is happening and has happened. You see, if we don't acknowledge the truth of what is and has been, how can anyone come up with a plan that might actually work in the future? There has been meetings and comment periods EVERY OTHER TIME they introduced these species. Didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.
There is not one metric of life that has improved in the last 20 years. The moral decay and the destruction of truth advances with increasing frequency and velocity every single day.
Does anyone ever stop to ask why it's going like that? Why the evil people constantly win? If so, what answers have you come up with.
... because I've come up with answers, and they have nothing to do with fighting or caring one little bit about the advancement of evil agendas. Contentment is not going to be had railing against evil illogical people doing their works, and if everything I've seen in my life is a clue, literally nothing will stop them.
The difference is... I'm fine with it.
I wasn't, until recently... but these days, I finally understand what's happening and I do not want to stand in the way of it.
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Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
You have your opinion and I have mine, however we can only blame ourselves if we take the attitude that we can't do anything about it. To be victorious in a war or change effort it typically takes more than one person, which is why I advocate in doing at least something by all or otherwise live in the current mess...Your choice.Perhaps. Yet I have a different perspective. There is no hope to be had in men. The fact that there is no evidence at all that anything anyone has done in the past 40 years on wolf reintroduction has had any effect on whether they've done it or not.
I'm not complacent at all. When a battle needs to be fought in my life, I go to the ONLY ONE equipped to fight the battle and let Him do it. If there's a work that must be done by me in that plan, then I do it. The victory will not be of my doing, but there will be victory all the same.
All this about fighting against these people. None of us have been able to stop them, and everyone can go comment and vote hard and go after these people as much as you like... the outcome of this will be no different than the past 40 years. They'll put the wolves in there. Just watch and see. They'll prohibit us from shooting them, and destroy our entire lives if we do, and it won't matter what the wolves do or who they hurt in the process.
Go ahead, convince me I'm wrong. Convince me that it hasn't happened like that every time before this. I really want someone to put forth a logical fact-based accounting of victories we've had against apex-predator introductions in my lifetime. I'm anxiously awaiting to be proven wrong about this. As I see it, the problems are only progressively worse, not better.
I don't care about your feelings. I'm talking about reality and what is... not what we'd have it be, but what is happening and has happened. You see, if we don't acknowledge the truth of what is and has been, how can anyone come up with a plan that might actually work in the future? There has been meetings and comment periods EVERY OTHER TIME they introduced these species. Didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.
There is not one metric of life that has improved in the last 20 years. The moral decay and the destruction of truth advances with increasing frequency and velocity every single day.
Does anyone ever stop to ask why it's going like that? Why the evil people constantly win? If so, what answers have you come up with.
... because I've come up with answers, and they have nothing to do with fighting or caring one little bit about the advancement of evil agendas. Contentment is not going to be had railing against evil illogical people doing their works, and if everything I've seen in my life is a clue, literally nothing will stop them.
The difference is... I'm fine with it.
I wasn't, until recently... but these days, I finally understand what's happening and I do not want to stand in the way of it.
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So then, I guess I should take that response as that what I've seen is indeed true... there are no instances of them saying they were going to release wolves or cats, and then not doing it as a result of public pressure.
There is no honor in being cannon fodder, no matter how romanticized someone tries to make it. Hard to win a fight when the troops don't even know what fight they should fight or how to do it.
I keep trying to get people to talk with facts, instead people want to create straw man arguments and rip them to pieces, talking about "my opinions." lol
Maybe some people feel good conquering straw men, but I don't. I prefer to know who is really bringing the fight... because it isn't the straw men. For the 5th time, I'm not advocating doing nothing. I'm advocating that we look at what hasn't worked for the last 40 years and then do something else.
When someone answers my question, about why we keep losing and they keep winning, over and over again... I'll know I have a upright critical thinking man in front of me that actually wants to have a discussion on its merits.
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Last edited:
Blueridgeguy
Well-Known Member
I'm in North Carolina but just put my thoughts in with the link. Hope it helps!
slam2107
Well-Known Member
Only takes one minute , to have your voice heardMontana FWP held a meeting in their draft wolf management plan this past Wednesday night.
According to this newspaper account, nonsportsman dominated the meeting.
Hunters need to stand up and have their voices heard, and having the wolf huggers drown out our voice is devastating to our future.
There is still time to have your voice heard. At the end of the article, there are links to the FWP Comment page.
Comments will only be taken through December 19th, so make this a priority.
Please keep it respectful, but by all means TELL the FWP of your experience in wolf country.
Also, be sure to mention the economic impact that the loss of hunting brings. Many small communities are already feeling the effects of fewer hunters, and that trend will only get worse unless they get the wolf numbers in check.
We need to stand up to those who want to ban wolf trapping and hunting, or we will be left with no hunting of any kind.
Non-sportsmen dominate Missoula wolf plan meeting
Chris Servheen of the Montana Wildlife Federation warned FWP that there was a potential reason so many non-sportsmen were at the meeting asking why unethical methods were being allowed and why it was legal to “waste” or abandon the carcasses.missoulacurrent.com
Okanogan
Well-Known Member
I know not everyone may have the same opinion on the wolf issue or many other issues. One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the that most participants can express their various opinions without making their response personal. Continued respect for others with different opinions even in the context of such a forum offers me at least limited hope that the future is not preordained.
So then, I guess I should take that response as that what I've seen is indeed true... there are no instances of them saying they were going to release wolves or cats, and then not doing it as a result of public pressure.
There is no honor in being cannon fodder, no matter how romanticized someone tries to make it. Hard to win a fight when the troops don't even know what fight they should fight or how to do it.
I keep trying to get people to talk with facts, instead people want to create straw man arguments and rip them to pieces, talking about "my opinions." lol
Maybe some people feel good conquering straw men, but I don't. I prefer to know who is really bringing the fight... because it isn't the straw men. For the 5th time, I'm not advocating doing nothing. I'm advocating that we look at what hasn't worked for the last 40 years and then do something else.
When someone answers my question, about why we keep losing and they keep winning, over and over again... I'll know I have a upright critical thinking man in front of me that actually wants to have a discussion on its merits.
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I think you both are actually saying the same thing from different perspectives. Gotta change the approach if you hope to win. Doing nothing because you haven't ever won and leaving it up to providence may contain wisdom but it just isn't the way most of us are wired. First of all, in Colorado the wolf initiative won by something like 50.49% to 49.51%. So in my reading that ain't hopeless. Secondly, we will never reach the completely convinced anti and brainwashed rewilding crowd. We just need to talk to our neighbors and colleagues and their friends etc and help them understand the breadth of the issues. In this particular fight, the ranching community is not our enemy. Connect with the middle not the extremists. And for certain every single one of us needs to vote. The general public supports the right and logic of hunting. And the conservation ethic therein. Thirdly, the way the Colorado wolf initiative went down is the wolf advocates retained the services of attorneys to craft a piece of legislation that could withstand all the arguments and appeals and fights against that would be set upon it. It was a piece of legal brilliance(well maybe a slight exaggeration but it was good work) We are no longer a live and let live society. The speed at which these societal changes are occurring is really shocking. So we are just a bit behind the curve but I don't think that means there is no hope. It may be heresy and hopefully is not a ban worthy thing to include on this forum , but Randy Newburg is as out in front of these issues as anyone I've found. Hunttalk.com has some really good podcasts and resources for us to listen to and think about. Its worth your while to listen and consider if you care about the future of hunting. Thank you and keep up the fight!So then, I guess I should take that response as that what I've seen is indeed true... there are no instances of them saying they were going to release wolves or cats, and then not doing it as a result of public pressure.
There is no honor in being cannon fodder, no matter how romanticized someone tries to make it. Hard to win a fight when the troops don't even know what fight they should fight or how to do it.
I keep trying to get people to talk with facts, instead people want to create straw man arguments and rip them to pieces, talking about "my opinions." lol
Maybe some people feel good conquering straw men, but I don't. I prefer to know who is really bringing the fight... because it isn't the straw men. For the 5th time, I'm not advocating doing nothing. I'm advocating that we look at what hasn't worked for the last 40 years and then do something else.
When someone answers my question, about why we keep losing and they keep winning, over and over again... I'll know I have a upright critical thinking man in front of me that actually wants to have a discussion on its merits.
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Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Huge amounts of $$$$ are harvested each year by various "fish & feather" departments by license, tag, & other fees, especially by out of state hunters. Yes, wolves are not nice, but they kill stuff for a living including deers, elks, & cows. Should the seasonal hunting take of deers & elks decrease to near zippo, $ take from fees & such would also decrease. Wolves & bears need to be hunted & doing so will instill a certain fear of man & decrease damages & danger presented by wolves & bears (less suburban pet extirpation & trash can looting). Same for coyotes, but nobody likes them except for the populace of some liberal east coast states.
The situation should be approached as an economic event where the harvest of many $$$'s by motel rooms, equipment buys, gas, beer, whisky, food, license & other fees would be reduced should the wolves & other beasts become privileged. Many in urban & suburban communities would resort to increased taxation to enable wolf privilege status - not ranchers having wolves eating their cows.
The situation should be approached as an economic event where the harvest of many $$$'s by motel rooms, equipment buys, gas, beer, whisky, food, license & other fees would be reduced should the wolves & other beasts become privileged. Many in urban & suburban communities would resort to increased taxation to enable wolf privilege status - not ranchers having wolves eating their cows.
There is also no honor in laying down and doing nothing, which seems to be your directive. You say it's not, yet you have not given one constructive alternative.
If you have a suggestion, we're all ears. But as far as I'm concerned your input has so far had zero positive influence on this thread.
... and what in the world should I talk to you for... You don't believe what I say anyway. LOL
"you say something, but I'm going to form my entire response on the fact that you don't mean what you say."
Wow, you're good at this internet troll thing. Bravo.
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This is 100% spot on, especially the part about those who love wolves don't know wolves.
I know a person who is a staunch wolf supporter. She is probably very typical of her kind.
When we discussed the fact that wolves often eat their pray before killing them, she was dumbfounded and very much did not want to believe me.
I told her of a rancher I know who lost several cows and newborn calves to wolves, some of which were half eaten (alive) then abandoned. Most eventually died, but some had to be put down.
Is that what these folks support? This person said no, that at least in that particular area, that something should be done to prevent that.
So, what, do we tell the wolves to behave? Would that help? They will listen, right???
They are wild animals and as such, they do exactly what they do.
If there is a troll in this thread, it is you. You have not contributed one positive thing in this thread.... and what in the world should I talk to you for... You don't believe what I say anyway. LOL
"you say something, but I'm going to form my entire response on the fact that you don't mean what you say."
Wow, you're good at this internet troll thing. Bravo.
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Congrats, I believe you are #3 on my ignore list.
