No Hydrodynamic Shock Below 2600FPS??

[Calvin45]

The RUM would have flattened him with SOME but not ALL bullets. If you has used a RUM and a bullet that had a large enough temporary wound channel to also have disrupted the spinal cord, DRT. Also, if the bullet has enough remaining velocity to turn the shoulder you hit into secondary projectiles you would get the picture I posted earlier, also DRT. Blew that deer in half by accidentally hitting a little bone on entry. I was shooting down on her. Hit just a tad high and hit the back of the scapular. She was also slightly quartering toward me at a little over 100. With the 190's its pretty much Thor's hammer on deer. So much so you have to be pretty careful where you hit them if dinner is the plan. That old 8MM flattened everything I ever got in front of it. Of course it had about 5000fpe so maybe it WAS Thor's hammer. It was spectacular hunting in knee deep water in green timber once I found the right bullet. With the wrong bullet it would completely destroy a deer. Set back pretty hard on the other end too. Was before brakes were popular. This was before the RUM was invented and performance was close to an Edge. Also was overloaded I suspect. Brass didn't last very long. We didn't know then what we know now.

Most violently destructive but fast killing load so far for my rifles has been of the light and fast variety. 120 grain Barnes tac-tx at a chronographed 4060 fps out of a .300
Win mag. That's 4390 foot pounds, may also be a tad over pressure. Peterson brass, 89.5 gr superformance powder (it's dense!), hbn treated bullets and bore make it possible. I work up my loads very slowly and carefully.

Closest thing to an "off" switch I've seen so far.

 

[Orange Dust]

One of the longest blood trails I ever followed was with a 500 or 510gr soft point in a .458. deer was about 150yds sorta broadside. Hit him in one lung. We chased him for a weekend before getting another bullet in him. Got the bright idea of loading up some 300gr Sierras intended for a 45-70. Thought it would be a better deer bullet. That was not a good idea. Opportunity came at about 50 yds. It was not pretty. Got the deer though, or what was left of it. Education can be costly.

 

[Orange Dust]

Most violently destructive but fast killing load so far for my rifles has been of the light and fast variety. 120 grain Barnes tac-tx at a chronographed 4060 fps out of a .300
Win mag. That's 4390 foot pounds, may also be a tad over pressure. Peterson brass, 89.5 gr superformance powder (it's dense!), hbn treated bullets and bore make it possible. I work up my loads very slowly and carefully.

Closest thing to an "off" switch I've seen so far.

Especially if you hit some bone. Enough blood pudding to bait ten trotlines!!

 

[Orange Dust]

On the smaller side when we were raising our kids all they could handle was a .243 with a brake. We always had trouble keeping the kid sighted in when they would get excited and start shaking. Tracking dogs hated to see us coming. Then I thought about my old Swift. We started loading 55gr Ballistic tips in them at about 4200. Get the deer broadside at a feeder 30yds away and any solid body shot was DRT. We were estatic and I loaded them for everyone in camp with kids and a .243. Killed well over a hundred over time. Only time we needed dogs again were with leg hits. Like several of you have said. 3000fps is very different from 4000.

 

[jessej]

Especially if you hit some bone. Enough blood pudding to bait ten trotlines!!

We'll I'll be.
I figured I was the only one here that ever baited a trot line with blood.

 

[Orange Dust]

We'll I'll be.
I figured I was the only one here that ever baited a trot line with blood.

Dude, I live in Arkansas. What would you expect. Been known to mix it with flour, cornmeal. Also been known to save deer livers in the freezer til Spring. They work pretty good too. We bought very little from the store when I was younger. BTW Try adding Sure Jel to the mix.

 

[LVJ76]

This whole notion of "shock" killing an animal is absolute BS.
Show me a proven example of an animal being hit No where near the CNS, say in the rear ham, that instantly DIED.
I have literally removed a good portion of a deers hind quarter and the animal was still able to run.
Bullets kill by displacing tissue by the action of cavitation as they expand through those tissues, watch some slow mo of ballistic gel tests, the cavitation expands the tissue then falls back on itself.
Shock itself doesn't kill, but the damage to blood vessels and organs, including the CNS if near enough, is what kills.
Sure, small animals appear to be killed by being blown apart, but that is totally different than shooting a buffalo.

Cheers.

Correct the shock doesn't not kill an animal, blood loss does. Unless as you mentioned the CNS is hit.

Shot several mule deer in the plains of the Sonoran desert, these shots were 40 to 70 yds.

Mostly using a 7mm-08 with bullets ranging from 139gr to 160gr. Shots dropped several mulies on their tracks, but still alive.

In a situation where visibility is usually no more than 60 yds all around, you approach that deer as soon as it drops in case a follow up shot is needed. and only to find that in some cases they were still breathing, but knocked out due to the shock. They end up bleeding out before they can wake up again.

Now on a shot thats 200 to 300 yards away, by the time you reach that deer it's already dead, and it gives to the idea that the animal died instantly, simply because it dropped where it stood.

 

[Calvin45]

Correct the shock doesn't not kill an animal, blood loss does. Unless as you mentioned the CNS is hit.

Shot several mule deer in the plains of the Sonoran desert, these shots we 40 to 70 yds.

Mostly using a 7mm-08 with bullets ranging from 139gr to 160gr bullets. Shots dropped several mulies on their tracks, but still alive.

In a situation where visibility is usually no more than 60 yds all around, you approach that deer as soon as it drops in case a follow up **** is needed. and only to find them in some cases still breathing, but knocked out due to the shock. They end up bleeding out before they can wake up again.

Now on a shot thats 200 to 300 yards away, by the time you reach that deer it's already dead, and it gives to the idea that the animal died instantly, simply because it dropped where it stood.

Interesting…

 

[Orange Dust]

Only actual instant kill was with a 200gr partition out of a 300 Weatherby. Whitetail doe between the eyes. Not even a quiver and the hole didn't even bleed on the ground. Did bleed some in the truck.

 

[baggy270]

This I do know. It is indisputable. If you use a big enough gun, hydrostatic, hydrodynamic, hydraulic shock or whatever you want to call it today just doesn't matter.

Holy crap! Howitzer?

 

[Orange Dust]

Holy crap! Howitzer?

300 RUM with 190 ABLR at 3400. Hit bone going in and bone exploded.

 

[Calvin45]

300 RUM with 190 ABLR at 3400. Hit bone going in and bone exploded.

Here's an exit wound for ya! 120 Barnes tac-tx (.300 blk bullet originally, they're designed to open down to 1350 fps) at 4060 fps out of my 300 win mag. This was a broadside hit. Note all the dark area…that's exit wound…hole…bigger than my fist and I have big hands. There was a chunk of tissue the size of my forearm outside the body cavity but still attached. A mess. But instant death without hitting the CNS!

 

[Orange Dust]

Here's an exit wound for ya! 120 Barnes tac-tx (.300 blk bullet originally, they're designed to open down to 1350 fps) at 4060 fps out of my 300 win mag. This was a broadside hit. Note all the dark area…that's exit wound…hole…bigger than my fist and I have big hands. There was a chunk of tissue the size of my forearm outside the body cavity but still attached. A mess. But instant death without hitting the CNS!

Think of it like this: here is a direct comparison between deer and jackrabbit. Your 300is a .225 win. My RUM is a .220 Swift. My hopped up 8mm mag is a .243 and a .338 edge is a 25- 06. Use a lite thin jacked bullet in each and the destruction is directly comparable. I blew up several whitetail bucks in the quest for the ultimate beanfield cartridge before LRF's and good repeatable turrets were generally available. All we had were mpbr and the holdover we could guess with a duplex. I had a bean field with flags all over it, and practiced a lot. Things have changes so much. 600 used to be one heck of a poke. Midrange now. Better bullets, scopes, rifles, everything.

 

[Bruce Treloar]

This I do know. It is indisputable. If you use a big enough gun, hydrostatic, hydrodynamic, hydraulic shock or whatever you want to call it today just doesn't matter.

I would call it a terrible waste, this is what gives shooting a bad name.