New Nightforce Reticles!

[mike33]

I was surprised to see NF come out with the velocity because it just didn't seem to be their style but at least it made some sense, to me anyway, in that out to 600 yards atmospheric changes don't have a big impact on POI. I would be more comfortable with 500 yards though.

The 1k velocity is really surprising. I just can't see it being at all practical unless verification shots are going to be taken before each shoot, or shot if one is hunting, to get dialed in to all conditions. That is one of the reasons I never could buy into the zeiss z reticles. Once I ran some numbers there was no practical benefit to it.

Am I missing something here?

Scott, I have to really agree with you on the Zeiss 1k reticle. Have a friend at a local gunshop selling them and decided to search them on line. Wow, how confusing if there scope is 22 highest power than the reticle for 1k yards you would have to set it at say 18 power and so on for other yardages. Now that would be very confusing least to say in accurate. I do have a lupy vx-3 vm hunter and it works well for 600 yards but i had to run the numbers shoot it on the highest power which was fine and now i was overshooting my yardage at some distances which i had factored in. anything past that range it , click it, send it.
mike

 

[SBruce]

I am in close agreement with most everyone else on this thread.

Personally, I enjoy using a holdover style reticle out to 500 and even 600 yds with my 22-250 for coyotes/prarie dogs. But..........I am always hunting/shooting at nearly the same elevation, and have shot it enough to know there are differences in POI due to temp changes and major changes in BP. I've even noticed a change due to lighting and mirage here lately.

That being said, I much prefer the standard moa hash marks, because if I have to turn the power ring (which takes time to make sure it's precise) then I might as well be dialing in the clicks on the scope. Besides, who wants to have to turn the scope power down to make a further shot???

 

[Scot E]

Buano,
Do you think that's more the case with the mil based Horus reticle vs. the very poplular Leup B&C reticle, for instance?

Edit: I'm just wondering if we may need to 'separate' the mil/moa based reticles from the reticles that are based on yardages such as the B&C and the Velocity, etc., to have a more clear discussion?

[FONT=&quot]Ya, I was talking more about the yardage style BDC reticles like the B&C, Velocity, EBX, Rapid Z, etc. I looked really hard at dropping some money on the NF 2-10x32 with the velocity reticle. But after doing a lot of run through's in my mind about how it would work I just don't see the real benefit. Not saying it won't work, it would work very well for a knowledgeable user. The only real benefit I can see is speed as far as how fast you can get a shot off. However, I am not convinced it is any faster than a MIL/MOA reticle with fixed stadia lines that still will match up closely to yardages in 50 or 100 yards increments very similar to the yardage style BDC reticles. Plus you have all the added benefits of equally spaced stadia marks for ranging, changing atmospheric conditions, sighting a gun in quickly, etc.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no doubt a legitimate market for the yardage BDC style reticles. For distances out to 4-600 yards, depending on cartridge specs, there isn't enough atmospheric interference to worry about as far as messing with POI enough to cause a miss on a big game animal. Regular traditional hunters that used to hold over can now have a solid aim point and I think that is a good thing IF they an accurately make the shot at that distance. Big IF most of the time IMO. But these yardage BDC reticles that go out to 600, 800, and now 1000 yards, I just don't get it.
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[FONT=&quot]The other big issue that needs to be dealt with is all of these BDC style reticles being sold in 2nd focal plane scopes. What a mess. MOST guys have no idea what the difference is between first and second plane. I like the 2nd focal plane because the stadia lines stay the same thickness for shooting but there are so many negatives that come with them for the BDC style reticles. Most reticles are calibrated on the max power and for many shooters this isn't a great power to be shooting on. Moving game, up close shots, and morning and evening shots, just to name a few issues, are problematic on high power.
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[FONT=&quot]I didn't realize Exbal had BDC reticles as part of their system. This does make things better but still not enough for me to make the jump.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My next scope will be a MIL/MOA style reticle. I really think there is a lot of potential there. Dialing mistakes are eliminated, click value errors are gone, changing click values as one dials to the max or min adjustment is now gone, and it is faster than dialing if a quick shot is needed. You can range distance with them if you rangefinder craps out. If you can see your errant shot you can be back on track with one adjustment.
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[FONT=&quot]Problem is I have a list of all of these features I want in a scope and as hard as it is to believe I really can't find exactly what I want.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Holland ART is close but. . . . . . . [/FONT]

 

[jmden]

[FONT=&quot]Ya, I was talking more about the yardage style BDC reticles like the B&C, Velocity, EBX, Rapid Z, etc. I looked really hard at dropping some money on the NF 2-10x32 with the velocity reticle. But after doing a lot of run through's in my mind about how it would work I just don't see the real benefit. Not saying it won't work, it would work very well for a knowledgeable user. The only real benefit I can see is speed as far as how fast you can get a shot off. However, I am not convinced it is any faster than a MIL/MOA reticle with fixed stadia lines that still will match up closely to yardages in 50 or 100 yards increments very similar to the yardage style BDC reticles. Plus you have all the added benefits of equally spaced stadia marks for ranging, changing atmospheric conditions, sighting a gun in quickly, etc.

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[SBruce]

[FONT=&quot]Problem is I have a list of all of these features I want in a scope and as hard as it is to believe I really can't find exactly what I want. [/FONT]

I've got two different NF reticles, and a Leupold TMR reticle. For the shooting I do, the NF with 1 moa vertical marks and 2 moa windage marks is my favorite.
All are 2nd FP, and as you mentioned; the highest power is not always the best. In contrast, turning down the power isn't always the best solution either................in comes the FFP scopes. I'd really like to look through one before I bought it though, wouldn't want the subtension to be too coarse or thick when turned down to 10, 12 or 15X.

I personally don't have any use for the Mill spacing in the TMR (way too coarse for the small targets I shoot,would much prefer moa) but maybe Leupold will catch on and start making a MOA Reticle similar to the TMR.........when they do, I'll send it in and get it changed.

 

[jmden]

I've got two different NF reticles, and a Leupold TMR reticle. For the shooting I do, the NF with 1 moa vertical marks and 2 moa windage marks is my favorite.
All are 2nd FP, and as you mentioned; the highest power is not always the best. In contrast, turning down the power isn't always the best solution either................in comes the FFP scopes. I'd really like to look through one before I bought it though, wouldn't want the subtension to be too coarse or thick when turned down to 10, 12 or 15X.

I personally don't have any use for the Mill spacing in the TMR (way too coarse for the small targets I shoot,would much prefer moa) but maybe Leupold will catch on and start making a MOA Reticle similar to the TMR.........when they do, I'll send it in and get it changed.

Haven't had a chance to mess with it much yet, but cranking the 22x NF down to 11x (mark there, I think) basically makes the 2nd FP NPR1 you mention an NPR2 with 2 MOA ele and 4 MOA windage. Goto 5.5x and the corresponding adjustment is made. There are some guys here that do this routinely...I need to mess with it some more to get it straight in my head for a quick shooting situation...