Husky user
Well-Known Member
I will answer some of these items at the end!
MT Elk Regulations Should Change!
- Thread starter Troutslayer2
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Prairie Sasquatch
Well-Known Member
I hunted archery in Montana in a general unit for 6 days in September and can honestly say it was one of the worst hunts I've ever been on. The hunting pressure was intense to say the least. I walked over 60 miles and spike camped several nights way back in. There was sign in all the places it should have been but the elk just weren't there.
The reality was that the vast majority of the elk had been pushed off public in to the private. I saw over 300 elk within a half mile of the public and called a bull to the private public fence line but he wouldn't cross.
I talked to a lot of guys. Everyone was super friendly but only one guy had killed a bull. He said "I've hunted all over the west and besides general Colorado this is the most hunting pressure I've seen."
The animals just weren't accessible. Not much to be done about it. If I lived in MT I think I could probably get it done at some point with more scouting and time but as a nonresident with little time and no local knowledge to point me in the right direction it's a pretty low value tag in my opinion.
The reality is that demand for elk is high and there's lots of people hunting.
The reality was that the vast majority of the elk had been pushed off public in to the private. I saw over 300 elk within a half mile of the public and called a bull to the private public fence line but he wouldn't cross.
I talked to a lot of guys. Everyone was super friendly but only one guy had killed a bull. He said "I've hunted all over the west and besides general Colorado this is the most hunting pressure I've seen."
The animals just weren't accessible. Not much to be done about it. If I lived in MT I think I could probably get it done at some point with more scouting and time but as a nonresident with little time and no local knowledge to point me in the right direction it's a pretty low value tag in my opinion.
The reality is that demand for elk is high and there's lots of people hunting.
Not sure how you could justify limiting NR hunters to a limited number of days while residents get to keep the long season. There's already a lower allotment for non resident tags, and non residents can't hunt wilderness areas without a guide. That's enough restrictions for non residents. Most of the public hunting areas in Montana are federal land, in my opinion that means access to everyone, no special rules should apply to residents only. If the elk population gets to the point where season lengths need to change, it should apply to all.
As for the retirees, if someone worked hard and paid taxes their entire life and want to spend the whole season looking for the right bull, more power to them, they've earned it in my book.
Want to get away from the pressure, put on a backpack and get some miles on your boots.
As for the retirees, if someone worked hard and paid taxes their entire life and want to spend the whole season looking for the right bull, more power to them, they've earned it in my book.
Want to get away from the pressure, put on a backpack and get some miles on your boots.
In my opinion, they need to find a way to open these vast acreages up for hunting.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that.
Private land is private land and just seeing the slobs and general s.o.b.s that hunters can be I sure don't blame anyone for not inviting us.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to do that.
Private land is private land and just seeing the slobs and general s.o.b.s that hunters can be I sure don't blame anyone for not inviting us.
Husky user
Well-Known Member
I think the biggest problem in Montana started a couple years ago when FWP did away with a lot of the special draw areas for Bull Elk!
Several ranches I used to hunt(for a fee) when I drew an either sex tag for that area leased hunting rights to an outfitter!
Any NR can hunt with just an elk tag,it locked most residents out.
They did this under the excuse that we have too many cow elk and they would give ranchers bull tags they could sell in exchange for letting cow hunters in, only problem its was only 4 hunters and the rancher got to pick(his buddies).
4 cows does not solve the problem,so this was bogus.
As far as transplanting elk they used to do that,but now because of CWD and the like they can't.
It was all a money grab for the ranchers and outfitters catering to the big money NR's
Several ranches I used to hunt(for a fee) when I drew an either sex tag for that area leased hunting rights to an outfitter!
Any NR can hunt with just an elk tag,it locked most residents out.
They did this under the excuse that we have too many cow elk and they would give ranchers bull tags they could sell in exchange for letting cow hunters in, only problem its was only 4 hunters and the rancher got to pick(his buddies).
4 cows does not solve the problem,so this was bogus.
As far as transplanting elk they used to do that,but now because of CWD and the like they can't.
It was all a money grab for the ranchers and outfitters catering to the big money NR's
I don't know if it's fact, but I've heard that the ranchers get money for "depridation"- the damage caused by the elk herds.
While I think they SHOULD be compensated, that compensation must also include a provision for allowing hunters in to "encourage" the elk to move along.
Like you said, allowing 4 of their buddies in is NOT the same.
I get it, that just opening the gates and letting everybody in is not the answer, either, but there has to be a way to accomplish it.
crashlanding
Well-Known Member
Most of hunters competition in Colorado doesn't come from non residents, it comes from all the tourists out there
W
Wyo37
Guest
I don't know, all the hunting celebrities say we need more hunters. They can't be wrong.....right?
willfrye027
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a lot of guys want Montana to move away from "opportunity". I don't live there so it's not up to me. I will say, be very careful what you wish for. I love the liberal season dates and many areas you can hunt on the general so you can spread out. If I want a trophy hunt, or to not see any other hunters, there are a bunch of other states for that. Trophy quality and hunting pressure will fluctuate no matter where you go…be flexible and embrace the opportunity to hunt, rather than hope some government agency will "fix" things for you. Create your own good hunting within the liberal season structure. I guarantee it's out there.
Montana does not compensate Agriculture loss due to wildlife, wintering elk, deer ext. depending on the situation they will issue deprivation tags to the landowners, or in some cases kill tags. Kill tags are issued to the land owner for a certain amount of elk typically less than 10. Once harvested, the FWP is responsible for picking up and transporting the cow elk to a certified processor. The elk is then donated to food shelters around the state.
Deprivation tags are issued for a certain number of elk or deer, once again cow elk or doe tags . Depending on the amount of animals and the extent of game population on said property, these numbers vary. The land owner is allowed 3/4 of the tags issued to people they chose to hunt the property. Must be a legal resident of the state. The remainder of the tags issued go into a "damage tag/ surplus tag" where residents of the State of Montana are randomly drawn in these units. Residents are allowed to apply for said units before the hunting season begins.
Unfortunately for landowners/ agricultural producers the crop loss can be detrimental to one's income.
Unfortunately hunter and landowner relationships is a very gray area, some have an open policy of access for the general public still, but more and more are closing down their property's due to the unfortunate short comings of a few bad eggs that do not respect the landowner's property or listen to what they tell them they can do or not do on their property. It is everyone's responsibility to continue to try and build and maintain relationships, and also respect landowners rules. It cost them a lot of money to not only maintain what they have but to continue to operate it.
There are a lot of disagreements and different opinions with landowners and FWP that has also shut down access to many properties across the state. Unfortunately this has caused a lot of access issues for the general public as well.
Then last but not least, is not only outfitters, locals, and out of staters leasing ranch/ agricultural property's to hunt. This is all across the country but it does cut out a lot of access to the general public.
In hind sight the landowners/ producers use this money to pay bills with. But there are a lot that use these means to harbor and land-lock the states wildlife resources.
Unfortunately hunting and fishing is turning into a pay to play system.
Sorry for the long winded comment.
Deprivation tags are issued for a certain number of elk or deer, once again cow elk or doe tags . Depending on the amount of animals and the extent of game population on said property, these numbers vary. The land owner is allowed 3/4 of the tags issued to people they chose to hunt the property. Must be a legal resident of the state. The remainder of the tags issued go into a "damage tag/ surplus tag" where residents of the State of Montana are randomly drawn in these units. Residents are allowed to apply for said units before the hunting season begins.
Unfortunately for landowners/ agricultural producers the crop loss can be detrimental to one's income.
Unfortunately hunter and landowner relationships is a very gray area, some have an open policy of access for the general public still, but more and more are closing down their property's due to the unfortunate short comings of a few bad eggs that do not respect the landowner's property or listen to what they tell them they can do or not do on their property. It is everyone's responsibility to continue to try and build and maintain relationships, and also respect landowners rules. It cost them a lot of money to not only maintain what they have but to continue to operate it.
There are a lot of disagreements and different opinions with landowners and FWP that has also shut down access to many properties across the state. Unfortunately this has caused a lot of access issues for the general public as well.
Then last but not least, is not only outfitters, locals, and out of staters leasing ranch/ agricultural property's to hunt. This is all across the country but it does cut out a lot of access to the general public.
In hind sight the landowners/ producers use this money to pay bills with. But there are a lot that use these means to harbor and land-lock the states wildlife resources.
Unfortunately hunting and fishing is turning into a pay to play system.
Sorry for the long winded comment.
dmj
Well-Known Member
I don't know what to say. I'm one of those old retired guys. I love to hunt and particularly hunt elk. Live in Oregon and archery hunt here. I'm extremely lucky as my wife enjoys the mountains and loves to camp. We usually go out 2-3 weeks before season and set up camp and start scouting. We stay the whole season, son and grandsons come out as there schedules allows. Never hunted Montana but have hunted Idaho quite a bit. Yes we go for the entire season, for the most part we are alone on this hunt. This is our fun (vacation, if old retired people can have a vacation). We don't go on trips, very seldom eat out or things like that. We just enjoy being in the outdoors and with an elk tag in my pocket, it just can't get any better. Would love to hunt Montana. And yes I understand that as a nonresident I wouldn't be very popular and for that I apologize. I really don't like going places that I'm not wanted and I guess that gets back to my first sentence. I don't know what to say.
Husky user
Well-Known Member
Nothing takes opportunity away from the average hunter than leasing hunting rights to outfitters!
willfrye027
Well-Known Member
Agree with that. Of all the states I've hunted, Montana's block management is the best program I've been able to experience for public hunters to access private land. I hope it stays that way for everyone's sake.
