Montana Deer and Elk Hunting

[RockyMtnMT]

As a life long MT resident, I don't have a hatred of out of state hunters. I never left MT because I did not want to give up the out doors. I have suffered through poor economic conditions in order to stay here. I could have moved away (and almost did) but decided to stay. I have a Government that is trying, at every turn, to limit my access to public land. I have out of state money buying the right to hunt private land. The Government influence is generally funded by people from out of my State. Throughout this thread I have been told that I should be thankful for the money that comes from out state hunters, and thankful for the public land that we have (because I will still have a place to hunt after all the private land is tied up in leases by out of staters with the money that I should be thankful for).

I am generally not influenced by emotion in any of my decision making, but this subject I have a hard time separating. I apologize for the negativity with this subject. If I ever run into you in a hunting situation I will be respectful, because we are on the same side, but chances are we will not speak because I will go in a different direction before you ever know that I am there.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but it is about as well as I can put it on paper.

Steve

PS

If out of state hunters had to be accompanied by a resident, I think it would take away some of the animosity. Just a thought.

 

[linksmechanic]

It's a shame you out of staters don't understand what these 3 montana natives are going through. There watching the land they used to hunt with there fathers and grandfathers be taken away by rich, disrespectful 4 wheeler riding fat slobs. I've read every post on here and have yet to see anyone state that they hate EVERY out of stater. This is what is leaving a bad taste in the natives mouths. The Rocky Mountain Elk foundation is buying up as much land as they can handle to keep all of us(including out of staters)hunting on what's left of our public lands.

 

[400classelk]

(Re: The Rocky Mountain Elk foundation is buying up as much land as they can handle to keep all of us(including out of staters)hunting on what's left of our public lands. ) B.S They need to spend some of that money protecting what's left of the elk before the wolf's desicrate whats left.

 

[7mmSendaro]

It's a shame you out of staters don't understand what these 3 montana natives are going through. There watching the land they used to hunt with there fathers and grandfathers be taken away by rich, disrespectful 4 wheeler riding fat slobs. I've read every post on here and have yet to see anyone state that they hate EVERY out of stater. This is what is leaving a bad taste in the natives mouths. The Rocky Mountain Elk foundation is buying up as much land as they can handle to keep all of us(including out of staters)hunting on what's left of our public lands.

I do understand how they feel. The exact same thing is happening right here in Illinois with whitetail hunting. It is hundreds of acres instead of hundreds of square miles, but the effect is the same. Could well be the same people grabbing up whitetail habitat here that are grabbing up elk and deer habitat there.

While it may have not been said, I felt they pointed it at all out-of-staters as well.

I think MOST of us here on this forum are on the same page with this issue if we think about it.

 

[hapycapy]

COWBOY AND ATH THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Well Said!!
Now that we have all calmed down a little bit I appologise for the way I worded my post I did not mean it to come out that way, but it seemed like we were getting bum rushed by everyone and being steriotyped like that angered me.

 

[mike33]

I listen to this in my area so its not all a western thing. I think we should all realize we are all americans and im **** proud of my country. Im 48 had the privilige when i was young to ride thru 47 of the 48 cont. states. Every state has there own beauty. When i was 16 going thru Mont. i thought and still tell everyone that was the most beatiful place i ever been. But i still love my home in w. Md. I have heard on a small bases of what some of the locals are talking about concerning leases and access. I still dont understand most of it though. I would be upset if i was denined acess to my hunting spot on private ground because some one in egypt spent money to keep me out. Mont. residents i would be upset too and i would gladly stand beside you armed to protect my ground. Did it in worse places that i didn't give a **** about protecting. What is really happening in your western states like this i still don't understand all the details. What im gathering is it something like there is public ground say 50 miles from road back in and some one bought the right of the road frontage that you cant cross the frontage to get there? I have been inquiring the last 2 years for a western elk or mule deer hunt and i cant believe i have outfitters sending me brocures living in Florida. Not to be stupid but if im booking an outfitter its because i dont know the ropes and area and would be impressed with jim bridgers great grandson, {you know where im going )
mike

 

[Coyboy]

I understand much of the frustration that the western residents feel. I have been on the recieving end of nonresidents as well.

I was threatened and intimidated by non-res while I hunted BLM land in Wyoming. Very interesting set of circumstances initiated the problem considering I was a non-res as well. I was on BLM land confirmed by the BLM office that I visited the day before I started hunting. The hunters in question were staying on the niegboring ranchers cabin. This rancher had outfitting and grazing rights for this blm property. This only keeps other outfitters from guiding on that property, individuals who walk in are allowed by law to hunt. These guys tried to disrupt our hunt, but that didn't work well for them because we were between 1/2 to 1 1/2 miles from the road and they didn't want to get out of there truck. I shot an antelope and after we got back to the truck about 20 minutes before legal shooting hours they confrunted me and my friend. (2nd day of deer season, they drove all the way from Ohio, and at prime time were yelling at us) go figure)

They were obviously misled by the rancher who sold them a place to hunt. They were certain we were tresspassing because the rancher told them that was "his" land. I can honestly say I had never been talked to so disrespectfully on any hunt anywhere. After showing them the maps with blm access clearly marked they went the route that the road we drove in on was private, after another map reading session, they blatently said"we don't want to see you back here"

It was a good thing I can give as hard as I can get. They threatened calling the Game Warden and I suggest that they do, so I could press charges for hunter harassment. I even gave them my name and license number so it would be easy for the warden to find me.

I'm sure that rancher was hockin down tums that night with all the ****ed off clients he had to deal with. I can not begin to understand some of the motivation behind this kind of conduct. The area I hunt is a patchwork of public land, with the majority being private. There seems to be very little to no hunting pressure on the public tracts, with most of the pressure coming from the road. From the sign I seen on that particular property the Mt. lion kill more game than the hunters.

Do I hold any ill will towards those guys? not anymore. Had they understood the BLM rules and been properly instructed by there rancher/outfitter, it probably never would have happened. This was the only inciedent in many trips out west and I hope it was my last.

Ironically I asked for permission from 3 ranchers to either hunt or cross thier land to access blm.
Everyone wanted to be paid. Whats the saying, Money is the root of all evil? I told them I would look elswhere and then continued to chat with them for 15 minutes. Even though I was denied everyone of them thanked me for asking.

Like Nonya suggested may-be there should be a test.

 

[NONYA]

It's a shame you out of staters don't understand what these 3 montana natives are going through. There watching the land they used to hunt with there fathers and grandfathers be taken away by rich, disrespectful 4 wheeler riding fat slobs. I've read every post on here and have yet to see anyone state that they hate EVERY out of stater. This is what is leaving a bad taste in the natives mouths. The Rocky Mountain Elk foundation is buying up as much land as they can handle to keep all of us(including out of staters)hunting on what's left of our public lands.

Well said,this state is falling apart,being bought out and locked away,hunting is becoming a sport for the extremly wealthy and that doesnt include the natives of this state that have lived here for many generations.These arrogant SOBS with their filson outfits and new jersey attitudes ruin it for everyone,they create a stigma that every out of stater is an *******.Unfortunatly we dont end up talking to the common man that has saved his pennies to come out here and do a do it yourself hunt,we end up having runins with the outfitters these pricks hired and their clients,running around like they own the state and us lowley serfs should stand aside so they can get their $10,000 dollars worth.No amount of money spent here is worth having to deal with these morons during our most precious time here,this state would function just fine without them and I pray the downturn in the economy will reduce their numbers for years to come.

 

[squirrelduster]

Rude people are not all from the East or the West.

I live in California and if you think you have problems hunting in Montana try it here on public land. Most of the people you run into don't even speak English.

My father, brother and I all belong to a hunting club so we have a place to hunt. Last opening day we found a nice buck and my brother snuck up for a shot. He was shooting my 300 win mag and when he fired you could hear the very distinctive smack of the direct hit. Another hunter that had heard the radio conversation when I was telling my brother where the buck was, started shooting at one of the other deer in the herd. The guy found the buck my brother had shot before we could get to the deer and claimed it for his own. This was on private land.

When I was young we hunted on public land and normally managed to shoot a buck. Now you are lucky to see anything on public land.

The orientals from the city areas go through the forest and shoot everything. Does, fawns, squirrels, or rabbits. Doesn't matter what it is they take it home and eat it.

Our game wardens are understaffed and don't have the budget for fuel to patrol so these people are never caught.

Count yourself fortunate that your wardens can actually catch some of the violators.

Even if you hunt areas that you might actually see another human during your hunt you are still better off than we are.

My dream hunt is for elk in Montana or Wyoming and I hope if I run into one of you locals you will treat me with the same respect I would afford you. I am not a slob hunter and would never think of horning in on your hunting location. If we are hunting in the same area I would offer to help you pack out whatever you shot and would be happy to help.

Don't throw everyone from out of state in the same category. There are ethical hunters and there are slobs from every state. The slobs are easy to spot.

 

[NONYA]

Yep most of them are being led around by overpaid worthless *** guides that think their guiding liscence is a liscence to threaten,intimidate and break countless other laws in order to pacify their clients that like to brag about how much money their hunt cost them.My hunting partners are transplants from Virginia,Nevada,Utah and Calif.,dont try to act like we automaticlly place out of staters in the slob hunter slot,the only native Montanas I hunt with are my close family,everyone else has moved here because they love MT and they respect its people,something many do not.They feel the same way about these turds as everyone else,them and the guides they pay to wipe their *** and gut their game.Look through a history of the MT F&G big bust list,almost 100% involve guides,most of them nonnatives,and their out of state clients,they perform stings every season busting these loosers that claim they can provide tgas for X amount of dollars,clients that kill game they dont have tags for,ect,etgun)

 

[mo]

Nonya

I don't think anything different is happening in Montana than here in Mississippi or anywhere else as a matter of fact. I'm debating even teaching my 8 yr old son to hunt. It's becoming a rich mans sport!!! It has gone from me hunting anywhere I wanted to having no place to hunt in the past twenty five years.

I live 88 miles north of New Orleans, La. All land here is private, and if you can find a job that pays more than mimium wage, you had better jump on it. No offense to N.O. people, but they have the money, and we don't. When a local can sell a 100 acre tract of cut-over land for a half million dollars, they sell it.

I lease a 189 acre tract of 16th section land for 4 dollars an acre. Even our own county officials are telling us to up our bid or they will relist in hope that someone from Louisiana will bid 12 to 20 dollars an acre.

Ive been hunting in WY for about 12 years now, and this year was the worst ever!!! I don't think people know how to walk anymore. All they do is ride a 4 wheelers, scare all the game, and screw it up for everybody else. You also have out-of-state outfitters that try to run you off BLM land!! So, Noya, I feel your pain!!!!

 

[squirrelduster]

Good post Mo.

It doesn't matter what state you are from the problem is the same. Access to land to hunt, poaching, and slob hunters riding the 4 wheelers all over creation.

There was an article about the Montana game wardens setting up a mechanical deer sting at night to catch spot lighters. They caught 10 people in one night. They do the same thing in Oregon and California. One of the ranches we have access to allowed the wardens to set up the mechanical deer. In one night they caught 28 people.

All of us good sportsmen need to make sure we turn in the dirtbags when we see them doing thing they shouldn't. All of us that are true sportsmen need to get along, it doesn't matter what state you are from.

 

[NONYA]

Here is a link to some of the big,recent busts here in MT,they all involve guides and their wealthy clients from out of state.If you get the details of these cases you will find many of the out of state defendants are doctors,lawyers,ect,ect.

Poachers Pay - Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks

 

[elkstalker300]

I have hunted in Co all my life and yes the 4 wheelers are getting out of control, my best buddies come hunting each year from out of state and we all have a blast, no alcohol in camps they bring their wives is they so desire and kids and we have a blast. This year they brought their side by sides and we never unloaded them off the trailers. They are really fun to hunt with. I used to hunt with a bunch of guys from Ca. and it was the same way. But we have millions of acres of national forests to hunt here. Co is really getting tough on the 4 wheelers and when they go off road so its not really a use to have them any more, still gotta watch out for them on the main roads but not so much in the back country anymore.