Mitigating Barrel Whip and Harmonics

[25WSM]

So its just a machine that puts vibration into a part to change its structure. I really think i would need to understand everything it does. How does it obtain the correct vibrations. I know nothing of this tech. I cant even begin to ask a question because i dont know what to ask. Where can i read in great detail what and how this works. Im more than a little interested. Thanks
Shep

 

[leo williams]

Shep, I first bought a unit for welding/repairing our heavy construction equipment. The schooling I attended pointed out its advantages for weapon accuracy. Being involved in 1,000 yd benchrest competition and long range hunting, this really got my attention. Like I said earlier, there has never been a weapon that did not improve after being treated. A poor shooter improved the most but top of the line bench guns also showed improvement. I lost that first unit in a fire but have since replaced it with two computerized ones. I have one in Montana and a new one in Pa. The one in Pa has not been used as I need a 54-60" table off an old (not working) milling machine. They work really well as there is machinists tooling available that clamps tight to the table ways. Looking but have not found one yet.

 

[25WSM]

Where in pa is it? Have you worked with any of the williamsport club members. I think we need to talk because i still really have no clue at all what it is this thing is or does. Im still looking for a hidden camera.
Seems as though you are trying to get the gun to dampen vibrations all over and reduced. How ever your barrel will still move up and down creating the nodes we shoot. You are trying to clean up the node so the barrel travels more uniformly? Where online can i read about this piece that does the vibrations?
Shep

 

[25WSM]

Update on me body. I'm still in the hospital. 8 days laying flat like a pancake with pain levels hit 10. The seurgeon can't even operate right now he says. Too much inflammation in my sciatic nerve root. Plan now is to get it all calmed down and do more test. Then fix it right. I broke my back in military on duty 32 yrs ago. I have lived in pain since but this time took me to the most rock bottom of my life that there is. I didn't even now this level existed for me. You guys know I don't like recoil so don't laugh but 2 nights ago when I hit bottom I was in agonizing pain for a bout of 45 min of crying screaming tears and convulsions of 10 level pain and left myself for dead. Really. Just slight more pain than a 300wsm recoil and my life was over. But I can tell you guys I'm on the mend the treatments are starting to work and I hope to leave this place tomorrow evening. I was able to stand for about 1 minute today. I thank every one of you that kept me going through this thread and all the other threads I was on to keep my mind off the pain. Nurses kept walking in the room and saying oh your still typing this late? I just told them it was pain distraction. So I'm off for the moment but I think this thread is going to keep on for awhile. Thanks again Shep

 

[GunHawk]

First of all... good luck Shep! Second! I have read through 9 pages of this thread and no one has mentioned a basic rule of physics: it takes more force to move more mass. So, if one keeps the cartridge forces constant, a heavier barrel will deform (move) less than a lighter one.
-"A force is that which can cause an object with mass to change its velocity, i.e. to accelerate, or which can cause a flexible object to deform."
From courses.lumen.com/boundless-physics/chapter/forces-and-mass/

 

[HARPERC]

.....I have lived in pain since but this time took me to the most rock bottom of my life that there is. I didn't even now this level existed for me. You guys know I don't like recoil so don't laugh but 2 nights ago when I hit bottom I was in agonizing pain for a bout of 45 min of crying screaming tears and convulsions of 10 level pain and left myself for dead.......

Ouch been there, hoping it's better soon.

 

[leo williams]

Shep, First of all, I hope you are improving healthwise. And yes, I belong to the Pa 1,000 Yd Benchrest Club. The Harmonic Stress Relief does nothing regarding vibrations. This takes the place of cryo or heat stress relief, which cannot truly show you that the stress is actually gone. As I said before, the computerized Harmonic Stress Reliever can provide a print out showing the before and after of stress in your weapon. If the barrel is uniform and the stress is gone, then the barrel will not "walk" with repeated firing. Shep,if you want, you can call me at 570-974-8097. Bud

 

[25WSM]

Bud Williams why didn't you say. Never heard you called Leo. We got all season coming up to talk this to death. Who has tried this up there and what do they think of it. I bet Ed and Matt and Joe have tried it. Or is it in a different clique. You know I only hang out at the world record holder tables. So I basically still have no clue what you are doing with this device. Seems as though you are vibrating/manipulation of the metal enough to change it grain structure that then stays permanently. This changes the harmonics. How do we determine what is the best number to reach and how to get there with the machine. Is it all guess power. Bob Shields and I have been talking about some things do to vibration also. I'm going to implement one on my light gun this yr. I might end up a short season again but I'm going to try. 3 big surgeries this yr pretty much killed it this yr for me.
Shep

 

[leo williams]

Shep, being a name not often heard, I wondered if it was you.

Well, actually,according to the manufacturer, even after the barrel is completely stress free, things change. I am told that each round fired, induces a minute amount of stress back into the barrel. Over time and shots, stress will build back up. So, an occasional treatment is supposed to maintain optimum performance. They claim that most barrels that are "shot out" are really only in need of a good treatment, for the most part.

Like I said, I need a 54-60" top off of a junk milling machine to get this one up and running. Take care Shep

 

[25WSM]

Aren't you glad there are not to many of me out there. What does this device do when welding? Is there a name of this thing?
Shep

 

[leo williams]

Shep, It adjusts the grain in the steel while you are welding. As you know, there are three areas when you weld. The welding rod is one, the parent metal is two & the heat zone next to the weld is three. Normally the welding rod area is the strongest because you can select whatever rod you wish. The parent metal is next in strength & the heat zone is by far the weakest and likely where a failure will occur. With harmonic stress relief, the welding rod area is still the strongest, the heat zone is next in strength, surpassing the parent metal, and the parent metal in now the weak link.

 

[25WSM]

Freaking science is awesome. And I'm with you on Results driven testing and data gathering. But it gets me sometimes to just not believe something because I can't put science and logic to the answer. When Kline tells me something to try I know it works and he knows it works and I trust everything he tells me. But I want to know why it works and so many times the answer is (it just does). Then gives me more instances when it did. I'm going to try and incorporate some of Bill Calfees ideas to a test rifle this yr. I'm going to try and get the muzzle stopped and see how it holds up for long range. I personally think it's a failure from the start. My other test this year is going to be opposite of the first in that I want more extreme barrel whip. But of a parabolic shape not a wave. Any thoughts.
Shep

 

[DSheetz]

Shep , I hope you are doing better . Metallurgy is some interesting stuff I know that heat treating causes the grain boundaries to change by bringing them back to a rounded shape and getting rid of the carbides that form around the grains as they cool fast as well as the graphite that is formed when the metal is melted . Hydrogen can be introduced from the atmosphere if we don't have proper shielding around the molten puddle or if water is present when welding then we get hydrogen surrounding the grain boundaries causing hydrogen embrittlement at around 800 degrees F . I don't know how ultrasound works on the grain boundaries to change this , but this would be interesting to study .

 

[leo williams]

Again, onlt as explained to me, heat treat or cryo, both affect the quality on the steel somewhat. After these treatments, the steel you started with has changed. And there is no way, that I am aware of, that the facility that has treated your item, can provide you with certification that your item started with "X" stress in it and it now has settled to "0" stress. They go by published, historical information for their treatment. Being able to provide this information is one of the advantages of my computerized Harmonic Stress relief set up, along with not affecting the quality of the steel you started with.