Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[Small Lady]

I never said it wasn't effective or enough gun, I said that particular 223 bullet wastes a ton of meat. The reason it is so effective is because the initial upset, expansion and then fragmentation.

I have read all 260+ pages of that thread, that bullet is extremely effective.

It reminds me of the original ELD, except for the fact you only experience the explosive results, none of the penciling.

No further than I shoot anymore, a bullet like the Federal 62gr Fusion is probably the perfect bullet. It has been reliable on pigs out to 200yds and I expect it would do the same with thin skinned game. Plus, they are cheap.

We all want one bullet to cover 100% of our hunting scenarios, from close to far, fast to slow, large game to small and thick skinned to thin skinned, I just don't think that bullet exists. Well, maybe the Partion or Accubond, but finding them and affording them is tough.

If it penetrates less deeply, does it really destroy more meat overall.
Maybe initially upon entering the game, but if it doesn't blow a giant hole out the other side, in the end which wastes more, or is it a wash?
Ultimately the best way to not waste meat, would be only take head shots. But is that always practical?
How many times would hunters have to let the game just walk away if they were to only be ready to take head shots.
By the way I think head shots are great, but only when practical to make. That moose staring right at you and only 20 to 200 yards away, why not. Aim right dead center between its eyes, and bang.
Horses are tough, but I was witness to a horse that had to be put down. My boss shot it right between the eyes with a 30-30 from 5 yards. I truly believe that poor horse didn't feel a thing. It died so quickly, it was just over.

 

[Petey308]

If it penetrates less deeply, does it really destroy more meat overall.
Maybe initially upon entering the game, but if it doesn't blow a giant hole out the other side, in the end which wastes more, or is it a wash?
Ultimately the best way to not waste meat, would be only take head shots. But is that always practical?
How many times would hunters have to let the game just walk away if they were to only be ready to take head shots.
By the way I think head shots are great, but only when practical to make. That moose staring right at you and only 20 to 200 yards away, why not. Aim right dead center between its eyes, and bang.
Horses are tough, but I was witness to a horse that had to be put down. My boss shot it right between the eyes with a 30-30 from 5 yards. I truly believe that poor horse didn't feel a thing. It died so quickly, it was just over.

You have to be careful with head shots. I've seen more than a few bullets glance off the skull from a not so square shot. I've seen jaws blown off too. More room for error there and it to equal a bad result.

As far as wasted meat, I see a lot of people write off meat as destroyed when in reality bullets constructed like the TMK tend to produce so much opposing hydraulic force that it separates tissues and allows blood to flow and pool in more places and between those tissues. It rinses away quite well and you can trim away the rest. I've used these type of bullets a long time now and after rinsing I still only ever trim away less than a pound of meat and it really equates to nothing truly lost.

I will take a bullet that creates that scenario but consistently and reliably drops animals quick over a bullet that holds together more and does less damage overall and results in a slower death at times, especially because they're less forgiving to shot placement errors.

I've seen a lot more lost deer or slow deaths from 223s in particular from loads using tougher constructed bullets and I think that's one reason they have a reputation as not being a big enough caliber or cartridge.

It's really hard to reliably and consistently have a bullet, and that is forgiving to shot placement errors, that does minimal damage but kills really quick and clean. It's a contradiction. If a bullet kills very quickly and cleanly, and is also forgiving to shot placement errors (produces wide wounding), it's going to do a fair amount of damage as a result. It's just part of the equation. Just be ready to do some rinsing and trimming and it'll be fine.

 

[Pharmseller]

75 ELDM out of my .223 put a Mulie buck on the ground for me this year, 475 yards, DRT.

It was neat to watch the impact.

I practice with it frequently.




P

 

[Prairie Sasquatch]

The next time I have a doe tag I'm going to shoot it with the 77 TMK out of my 22-250 AI. It shoots 77 MK's awesome. I can be more patient with a doe as there are plenty to hunt. I only get rifle tags for bucks every few years so I'll keep shooting the 6.5-284.

 

[xsn10s]

75 ELDM out of my .223 put a Mulie buck on the ground for me this year, 475 yards, DRT.

It was neat to watch the impact.

I practice with it frequently.




P

What was the MV and load you came up with? TIA

 

[del2les]

75 ELDM out of my .223 put a Mulie buck on the ground for me this year, 475 yards, DRT.

It was neat to watch the impact.

I practice with it frequently.




P

Here are a couple of 75gr deer, hog, coyote and antelope killers. The 223 load is used in my 26" long throat and is pushed by a heavy dose of AA 2520 to 3k fps in that barrel.

 

[Pharmseller]

What was the MV and load you came up with? TIA

2915 fps. Max load so work up to it.

1.940" is bto.




P

 

[Pharmseller]

You really gotta pay attention to the wind with that little bullet.




P

 

[del2les]

Just for comparison for those following this thread and may be curious why some of us hunt deer or hogs with 22 cals, here are just three varied 224 hunting bullets compared with a .243" 85gr Speer (far right) that works for deer especially in the old 1/12 twists.

L - R: 75gr Berger, 75gr AMAX, 80gr ELD and the 85gr Speer .243
Most people would agree the .243cal is a very capable deer bullet.

The other photo is a 22-250AI loaded with a 75AMAX compared to a standard 22-250 with same. The AI is pushing the 75gr at a rather mild 3,400fps in a 1/8" twist with the standard pushing the same bullet at 3,300fps in a 1/9 twist barrel.

 

[Pharmseller]

For me it's about placement. I practice out to 600 often with my .223. I can put a bullet at the top of the bottom 1/3 of a deer's chest with confidence.

Granted, can do the same with my 7mm-08, but the .223 is more fun, and just as effective.




P

 

[xsn10s]

View attachment 513616

2915 fps. Max load so work up to it.

1.940" is bto.




P

Oh that's right. Thanks

 

[436]

Sierra 65gr sbt Gameking may be your answer. Excellent bullet.

I agree, the 65gr Sierra GK SPBT #1395 in a .223 Rem is a great bullet, I've tipped over a couple of Whitetailes in the Winchester Idaho area over the years with it from bolt rifles and an AR... love it, was very accurate, the long shot was about 300 yards it moved, bullet on all of the Deer preformed perfect for it caliber. IMO this bullet is a real speeper, it punches way over it weight class and as an all around .22 cal it's hard to beat. Just my 0.2 Cheers

 

[Petey308]

I agree, the 65gr Sierra GK SPBT #1395 in a .223 Rem is a great bullet, I've tipped over a couple of Whitetailes in the Winchester Idaho area over the years with it from bolt rifles and an AR... love it, was very accurate, the long shot was about 300 yards it moved, bullet on all of the Deer preformed perfect for it caliber. IMO this bullet is a real speeper, it punches way over it weight class and as an all around .22 cal it's hard to beat. Just my 0.2 Cheers

The GameKings, MatchKings, and TMKs are pretty much all the same thickness jackets and same lead cores. The tip is really the big difference, and then mass and slight differences in profile shape.

So the 65gr GameKing in a lot of ways would perform similar to a 69gr TMK, just with a bit less BC.

 

[436]

The GameKings, MatchKings, and TMKs are pretty much all the same thickness jackets and same lead cores. The tip is really the big difference, and then mass and slight differences in profile shape.

So the 65gr GameKing in a lot of ways would perform similar to a 69gr TMK, just with a bit less BC.

Interesting, I've shot both, however out of a .223 Rem and in its vel's range, I kind of liked the 65gr GK better I wasn't trying to stretch it out, just tried to keep it within what I thought might be its best performance envelope. I would agree; if I wanted to push out with it, the 69gr would be a little better choice for trajectory and a minute gain in fpe, but... as far as bullet performance for my usage, I'm pretty sold on the 65gr GK with that said... I do understand your input on the subject. Thanks... Cheers.