Low recoil deer caliber

[blvette75]

My opinion about the 20 gauge for kids is that reloading light is even more important than it is for a 12 because I've seen men buy kids lightweight, cheap pump shotguns and they don't realize with factory ammo that kid is getting more recoil from that 20 than he's getting in his heavy, long 12 gauge trap gun- and then he wonders why the kid doesn't like to shoot? There are good 3/4 ounce light loads published using special wads (from Ballistic Products, sp 20 long) or regular wads with filler-cards and with the right cases (old AA, sporting 20 long) you can get the load down to 11/16 and still get a good crimp, and good patterns. I like Red Dot (12 grains) for my antique guns. Even Damascus (I know it's not politically correct to shoot Damascus) Easy on the gun, easy on the shooter, clean... the hard part is keeping the kid supplied with enough ammo.

Had gotten her a semi-auto, which actually wasn't too bad as she was not recoil sensitive, a guy hooked us up with some light loads from Federal, that cycled. Thanks for the info appreciate it.

 

[Swinehunt74]

I built a savage 6.8spc bolt gun for both my boys at age 7, both of them have killed several deer with them and they have solid knockdown6.8

I built a savage 6.8spc bolt gun for both my boys at age 7, both of them have killed several deer with them and they have solid knockdown

6.8 is one of the most underrated calibers out there, have literally put down thousands of hogs ranging from 30-450lb. 110 vmax on deer and hogs with very lt recoil.

 

[A/1-61]

I've raised two hunters and taken many others on their first hunt. I really encourage suppressor use. My favorite low recoil rounds are 6.5 Grendel and 22 Creedmoor, killed many with 22-250 before the Creedmoor with heavier bullets came along. One thing that has helped more first time hunters than any other is let them dry fire, crosshairs on the game before you ever load the chamber.

I set my grandson up with a rem 700 in .257 AI. He loves it. Three deer in his first two years hunting. A nice 12-point last year.

 

[del2les]

Of course if you are a handloader, you can down load most any cartridge for reduced/low recoil.
While I have mentioned the 223/5.56 and the 243W with 80-85gr, even a 308 can be loaded with Barnes 110-120 Tac-TX or 125 Noslers and downloaded to 300BLK vels. That way, a youth can grow into the heavier caliber later in life.

Or, you can go with a 300BLK in an AR adjustable stock platform just like the 223/5.56.

There are many options for low recoil deer hunting for youth.

 

[del2les]

I would argue that a lot of what you are suggesting there is very marginal in some areas of the US. 223 is not legal in most northern states because it is insufficient. 243W @80gr and 300BLK @110gr are very low sectional density bullets (0.19, 0.165) SD <0.21 should be a minimum and <0.25 better.

I agree that shot placement is more important and probablly millions of deer have been killed with these caliber/bullet combos. But there will be situations that those combos will be insufficient, but 243W (or 6ARC) @105gr would not be.

SD <0.25
.243 - <103gr
.257 - <116gr
.264 - <122gr
.277 - <134gr
.284 - <141gr
.308 - <166gr

I'll stick my neck out here... I'd rather see a kid use 22 ARC @88gr than 300BLK @ 110gr.

If you would have read my early post, I did mention if 22 cals are legal in your area. I was referencing the ops request for low recoil loads for a kid, and as I stated above, there are numerous such loads available and was only giving a couple to few.

Over the decades, I and many others have killed numerous deer sized game with various 22 cals, 6mm reduced loads, 6 & 7mm TCU handgun loads, 308 reduced loads, 300BLK loads, pistol calibers, etc, etc, so they are very sufficient for the task.

If one doesn't have any or much real field experience with these calibers and loads, they may think these loads are insufficient, but within their range with proper bullet selection, they work. Kids typically keeping their shots much shorter than olders.

All of the above are as or far more effective than a 45-50 cal round ball and some conicals in a muzzle loader, but most people have no issue accepting those as viable deer killers.

Edit: Don't get all caught up in "numbers" of SD and such, for I and many have seen far too many 30 cal Barnes 110-120's go completely through deer and hogs from 300BLK and others. Similar with the 85 Speer BTSP and 80gr TTSX from various 6mm rounds, and many of the 22 cals designed for larger game. I would say 80% of the broadside deer hits I have made with my 22 cals, they were complete pass throughs with plenty of tissue damage. Many times very similar to 6mm.

 

[del2les]

The "numbers" are the only ethical way to measure cartridges against each other. Going out and killing a bunch of deer with a 22lr and failing to retrieve them would show that it is not highly affective on deer, but comparing numbers is a much more ethical way about it.

Sectional density directly relates with penetration depth. Meaning all things equal a higher sectional density bullet will have more pentration. If a bullet can't pass through an animal with a perfect broadside shot 20% of the time I would call that ineffective. Bullets should be able to pass through 95%+ on quartering shots 100% on broadside. If you are hunting a tree stand no pass through means potentially no blood trail. I have hunted a lot of areas that you will never find a deer without a blood trail because the briars are too thick.

If you want to do it that is fine. You may hunt wide open coutry with no brush, and a big animal is 100lbs. But if someone isn't knowledgable and asking for advice I wouldn't suggest what you are suggesting. If presented a 100yd shot on a <220lb animal quartering away surronded by thick brush, I wouldn't take the shot. Telling a kid that he can't shot at the buck of a lifetime because his gun doesn't shoot the right bullet doesn't seem fair. Or mamng it for the coyotes is even worse.

If you already own a gun it is one thing to make use of it, however it is capable. If you are going to go out and buy one, buy a ast twist 243W or 6ARC, it's going to be the same price as 223 and more prepared for the job. Killing power/ftlb recoil I think 108gr Hornady ELD-M wins.

With many decades of real world experience hunting in all types of conditions, terrain, game and countries, I'll stick with what I know works. As I stated earlier, there are numerous low recoil deer calibers and cartridges that work. YMMV.

Killing power is NOT ft/lb of energy, but that is another horse discussion that has been beaten to death here and elsewhere many times.

 

[buzby]

The "numbers" are the only ethical way to measure cartridges against each other. Going out and killing a bunch of deer with a 22lr and failing to retrieve them would show that it is not highly affective on deer, but comparing numbers is a much more ethical way about it.

Sectional density directly relates with penetration depth. Meaning all things equal a higher sectional density bullet will have more pentration. If a bullet can't pass through an animal with a perfect broadside shot 20% of the time I would call that ineffective. Bullets should be able to pass through 95%+ on quartering shots 100% on broadside. If you are hunting a tree stand no pass through means potentially no blood trail. I have hunted a lot of areas that you will never find a deer without a blood trail because the briars are too thick.

If you want to do it that is fine. You may hunt wide open coutry with no brush, and a big animal is 100lbs. But if someone isn't knowledgable and asking for advice I wouldn't suggest what you are suggesting. If presented a 100yd shot on a <220lb animal quartering away surronded by thick brush, I wouldn't take the shot. Telling a kid that he can't shot at the buck of a lifetime because his gun doesn't shoot the right bullet doesn't seem fair. Or mamng it for the coyotes is even worse.

If you already own a gun it is one thing to make use of it, however it is capable. If you are going to go out and buy one, buy a ast twist 243W or 6ARC, it's going to be the same price as 223 and more prepared for the job. Killing power/ftlb recoil I think 108gr Hornady ELD-M wins.

Pass throughs don't do much for me. My last 2 deer;

20ga 260gr accutip slug through the heart. Complete pass through, 2 large holes in the heart. Deer ran flat out for 200yds.

143gr eld-x slightly above the heart. No pass through. Heart and part of the lungs turned into jello. Dead in 20yds.

 

[A/1-61]

FYI... A .22 rimfire magnum has always been, and still is, a legal caliber for deer hunting in Maine and I dropped a handful over the years with my Savage/Anschutz with no issue. I also hunted deer in Maine for 2 decades with a .220 Swift--a bit more energy than the 22mag.

 

[ARlife4me]

22short, but check your state! What's legal? Got me!

 

[Turpentine21]

would a 270 win have light enough recoil?

Download it with 40 to 44 grains of h4895 and try some 120 grain SSTs and it's a creampuff. And kills just fine. 130s work also. That's what my son shot before I started building ARs. From then on the kids have used 6.5 Grendel. In 30/06 42-44 grains of imr or H4895 and a 150 sst works great. I like a hotter primer for these loads. Either Winchester large rifle or a magnum primer. That 30-06 load runs 2550 on 42 and 2650fps at 44 grains with a 24" barrel. Then cut the stock and add a Limbsaver recoil pad If you need a shorter length of pull. I will also add a foam pad or pads to the comb of the stock, particularly with girls due to their higher cheekbones. This gets their eye up to scope level without having to Turkey neck and gives them a better cheekweld. Makes a huge difference.

 

[Wadsworth]

Some manufacturers also make reduced recoil loads for deer sized game..

 

[Pharmseller]

This guy gets it.

Watch it, buddy, I'm married.



P

 

[akmtnhnt]

6arc or 6.5 grendel or maybe even the new 22 arc. I'd do it on a bolt gun, but nothing wrong with an AR. Or good ol 223.

 

[A/1-61]

I never said it can't be done, but why?

Imagine you spend a couple days scouting an area set up a couple stands. Take a couple days off work, travel however far. Hike in in the dark, and you're gonna give the kid a 22mag? Why? Why handicap the kid? What if the buck of a lifetime walks into 100 yards but there's no head shot? He's gotta pass it up. Or shoot it in the lungs and hope to track it the 7 miles it runs before it dies.

If you are driving home after work and you wanna poach a deer on the side of the road and there is a 22mag under your seat, your a douchebag, but I get it. That makes sense. Poachers usually don't care if they maim a few extra deer.

Why would a fine gentleman like yourself, who doesn't even know me, somehow finds the urge to call me a douchebag and a poacher. I have walked this planet for 76 years and served my country in combat, and I believe I don't deserve that type of columny.