Looking for Blackhorn loads for Rem 700 Ultimate muzzleloader

Buttermilk said:
Check this out:

Remington's Ultimate Muzzleloader « Western Powders

And this:

Remington Model 700 Ultimate Muzzleloader Frequently Asked Questions
Click to expand...

Two years later, Western has still not published a maximum charge of BH209 for the Remington Ultimate. There could be a liability issue if they were to list the maximum charge the RU is capable of when using BH. Not that the RU couldn't handle it, but rather some guy shooting a standard production muzzleloader getting ahold of the data and using it in his mass produced rifle. That may not be good.

Now the last site and the RU being compared to the UF Inc. rifle has some humor to it. Of course the "writer" being compensated, is going to say one rifle is better than another. Remington did make their breech plug harder and for a reason. They did it so that in some cases the owner could (might) replace his/her breech plug. Replacing a breech plug can definitely create a head spacing issue, with a less then efficient seal of the brass to the nipple. Although they claim to sell spare breech plugs, getting the proper head space set right "may" be an issue.
Remington bought the rights from UF Inc. to use the same system. They just hardened the plug with a minor thread change.

The use of any piece of brass for a primer carrier, does exactly the same thing, rather its a shortened 30-06/308 case or a .45WM case or a .45ACP case. It matters not what type of primer carrier is used, or its length. What matters is the head space, which is all controlled by the OA length of the breech plug. Very careful inspection MUST be done with each fired primer/brass carrier from either rifle. ANY signs of gas leaking and no matter how many times that piece of brass has been re-primed, it must not be used again. Continued use of a leaking primer will eventually gas cut the nipple, requiring a breech plug replacement.

What was not mentioned in the article/blog, is that the UF Inc. barrel is a much higher quality barrel than the RU. The fit and finish of the UF Inc. rifle is reportedly of much higher quality than the RU.

Now...... I'm not suggesting that the RU isn't a good rifle. Not at all. There are some shooters achieving really good accuracy at 300yds with the RU. A good friend and fellow shooter, has two neighbors shooting the RU, with what it was DESIGNED FOR, pellets. Both are shooting MOA at 300yds with their rifles and shooting 3-T7M pellets.

The author of that article should take his rifle and compete up against the rifle he claims is the lessor rifle. He can shoot BH or what ever he wants, but rifle he states is the lessor of the two, will be shooting (as designed) pellets. It would be interesting what he wrote about the outcome. LOL

To the OP....... Remington doesn't list BH209 as an approved propellant in its manual. Unless they've rewritten their manuals to include it lately. The ignition system was actually designed to shoot pellets. Not that it won't ignite BH or any other BP substitute, but its design was for shooting pellets.
 
Buttermilk said:
The second link I posted states within that article that Remington has the max charge for BH209 at 150 gr volume.
Click to expand...

It begs the question then, why, after all this time of testing by Western and Remington/Barnes, hasn't the load data been published by either Western or Remington? The RU is in its 3rd year out and BH has been out even longer.
There's no documentation in either the Remington Ultimate manual or on the Blackhorn site. Is Remington and Western relying on a compensated outdoor writer to provide the data?

I'm not suggesting that either the RU or UF rifles won't ignite BH209, they BOTH will. BOTH rifles are built with much stronger actions and barrels, which are capable of handling charges well above what mass produced production rifles are capable of safely. The question is, why hasn't Remington included it in the rifle's manual or, Western published the data? Especially when BH209 has become such a popular BP substitute?

Could it be that the nitrocellulose composition of BH209 and the long term affects on the flash hole and nipple are really not known at this time? Could it be that Remington would much rather have a rifle sent to them for breech plug replacement, so that the head space can be set properly, than the owner replacing it themselves (warrantee costs)?
Then another question........ why did the inventor (UF Inc.) of the breech plug, the same breech plug as in the RU short of a hardening difference, remove BH209 from its list of approved BP substitutes?

In reality, I don't honestly believe that there's another person who would prefer shooting BH209 more than myself. I've shot many thousands of rounds of BH through production rifles. BH has a lot going for it, because its consistent in size/shape and can actually be weighed... using the conversion provided by Western only. It doesn't leave crud rings, in most cases (short of extreme accuracy) there is no swabbing necessary between shots.

I shoot and own the big brother to the RU, the BP Xpress. Like everyone else, I wanted to shoot BH through the rifle, for many of the reasons above. After shooting 3 containers, I found my breech plug was completely gas cut and required replacement. Replacement wasn't as easy as just removing the 2 piece breech plug (the RU is 2 piece also). I took it to UF Inc., who removed the barrel from the action, placed the barrel in a lathe and drilled out the gas cut and burned breech plug. Once that procedure was completed, then the head spacing of a new breech plug was necessary, the barrel and action put back together and a blunt warning about shooting BH, a nitrocellulose propellant in the rifle.
Maybe Remington, by not publishing the data in their rifle's manual, is taking the advice of the breech plug inventor?

There's a reason both rifle manufacturers post the acceptable BP substitutes in their manuals. It'll be interesting if Remington includes the data and what their warrantee costs may do. The RU will shoot just as accurately and to the same ranges using their recommended propellants, as it will shooting BH209.
 
Last night I had a decent group of 2 touching & 1 one inch away @ 100 which I may have pulled a little (1.5 group for 3, .5 for 2). I'm shooting with a 40x scope so I can call my shots.
Load was 3 60gr
777 pellets. I ran 3 licked patches down in between each shot using both sides for 6 passes each shot. The barrel is pretty dirty after each shot. I'm going to now try 101 gr weighed charge of 209 next. This is supposed to be the equivalent of 180 by volume load. If the accuracy stays and it shoots cleaner it'll be my load for this year till I can get more range time. PS the sling stud was messing with me on the first session so I removed it.
 

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Kaboom said:
Last night I had a decent group of 2 touching & 1 one inch away @ 100 which I may have pulled a little (1.5 group for 3, .5 for 2). I'm shooting with a 40x scope so I can call my shots.
Load was 3 60gr
777 pellets. I ran 3 licked patches down in between each shot using both sides for 6 passes each shot. The barrel is pretty dirty after each shot. I'm going to now try 101 gr weighed charge of 209 next. This is supposed to be the equivalent of 180 by volume load. If the accuracy stays and it shoots cleaner it'll be my load for this year till I can get more range time. PS the sling stud was messing with me on the first session so I removed it.
Click to expand...

When shooting T7 like you did, patches with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine work wonders. Not wet, just slightly damp works best.

Keep on shoot'n...........
 
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