Long range bullets that will penetrate up close without blowing up.

[mmacfive]

Idk if it was a bad shot. I wasn't there.

The point was it doesn't take a long range shot to wound an animal. It can happen at all ranges and the bullet being a mono wasn't a magical fix to the situation. How you LIKE to read it is it was bad shot and it wasn't the bullet. That is up to you. Either way, I drove up sometime a few days later when I was off and went looking around the area, he showed me the area and we found the bullet in a big *** tree trunk. I couldn't imagine it expanded in the animal and still penetrate into a tree like that.

Sorry I misread that: It wasn't a bad shot...it was the bullets fault. Got it.

 

[6MM06AI]

I just bought some 7mm 175 LRAB to try in my 280 AI, running the numbers looks like will perform both close and farther than my 160 AB.

 

[JarHeadTim]

Pretty sure that is backwards. Monolithic bullets are more likely to expand at high velocities and close range, less likely to expand at lower velocities, just like everything else. They do not ignore the laws of physics. Those bullets that didn't expand at close range most certainly would not have expanded at long range given the same impact location and lack of hitting solid internals like bone.

It's not backwards, it's a repeating real life observation, not speculation! The Monolithic Bullets we have used seem to be harder than a 2 piece bullet. In the 6.5 caliber specifically at ultra-high velocity exit wounds are tiny. I assume it's because a monolithic peels and a 2 piece bullet will smash. I'm not bashing, I'm talking about the analogy we are witnessing. We are asking an awful of a bullet to expand in something that is 14" wide wide on average at 3,100 FPS at 50 yards, that bullet is thru that animal is a fraction of a second.

So if my theory is backwards, tell me why the ABLR produces better results in that scenario then the mono's do?

 

[mmacfive]

It's not backwards, it's a repeating real life observation, not speculation! The Monolithic Bullets we have used seem to be harder than a 2 piece bullet. In the 6.5 caliber specifically at ultra-high velocity exit wounds are tiny. I assume it's because a monolithic peels and a 2 piece bullet will smash. I'm not bashing, I'm talking about the analogy we are witnessing. We are asking an awful of a bullet to expand in something that is 14" wide wide on average at 3,100 FPS at 50 yards, that bullet is thru that animal is a fraction of a second.

So if my theory is backwards, tell me why the ABLR produces better results in that scenario then the mono's do?

"Better results" is subjective. Velocity initiates expansion. Regardless of bullet material. Mono bullets will expand more up close than at distance. Your "going to fast to open on an animal" theory is wrong. Somehow I doubt you will agree.

 

[6MM06AI]

Talking about speed and expansion, I've got a weird one for you. Built a 22-243 shooting 50gr nosler bt at 4000fps, blows up a coyote. So I built a 20-250 that shoots a nosler 40gr bt at 4130 fps and it just pokes a little hole all the way through and doesn't expand, but shoot a prairie dog and it looks like it swallowed a grenade. And both are 12 twist. I want to shoot a coyote in the shoulder to test it more. And I've had the same experience with the Barnes is that they open up at higher speeds not slower. Possibly on a double lung shot on a deer not enough resistance to open it without hitting a rib, just guessing, don't know.

 

[memtb]

In over 25 years of using Barnes mono bullets, the only time we experienced, what could be considered "lees than optimal" performance was with a 225 TTSX from my wife's .338 WM on an Antelope. The shot was a 200 yard, offhand, somewhat hurried shot, on an Antelope walking broadside. The bullet hit very low, just behind the foreleg, probably only having about 6 inches or less of Antelope to perforate. At the shot, the Antelope ran about 40 to 50 yards, before expiring. There was no blood found for the first 30 or so yards, and minimal damage to the Antelope. Perhaps, not enough Antelope to provide adequate resistance for proper/complete expansion! With numerous, antelope, deer, elk, a moose and a bear having been taken by her with this rifle....this was the "only" time we've been "less than" very happy with the results. With shots from 30 yards to in excess of 400 yards, we've yet to recover a Barnes from her rifle. And all, have been one shot kills, with the exception of a couple of elk....where the first shot was not properly placed. One of the elk was due to misjudgment of wind velocity when shooting across a draw, the other a hurried shot as the elk was passing behind the point of a ridge. memtb

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

It's not backwards, it's a repeating real life observation, not speculation! The Monolithic Bullets we have used seem to be harder than a 2 piece bullet. In the 6.5 caliber specifically at ultra-high velocity exit wounds are tiny. I assume it's because a monolithic peels and a 2 piece bullet will smash. I'm not bashing, I'm talking about the analogy we are witnessing. We are asking an awful of a bullet to expand in something that is 14" wide wide on average at 3,100 FPS at 50 yards, that bullet is thru that animal is a fraction of a second.

So if my theory is backwards, tell me why the ABLR produces better results in that scenario then the mono's do?

Read your original post and my response again. No where did I say mono bullets expand more than traditional jacketed bullets. I said expansion for any given bullet is dependent on it's velocity and what material it impacts. You post indicated that because the mono bullets are going fast at close range they are not expanding. They would expand even less at lower velocity, just like traditional bullets do.

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

Talking about speed and expansion, I've got a weird one for you. Built a 22-243 shooting 50gr nosler bt at 4000fps, blows up a coyote. So I built a 20-250 that shoots a nosler 40gr bt at 4130 fps and it just pokes a little hole all the way through and doesn't expand, but shoot a prairie dog and it looks like it swallowed a grenade. And both are 12 twist. I want to shoot a coyote in the shoulder to test it more. And I've had the same experience with the Barnes is that they open up at higher speeds not slower. Possibly on a double lung shot on a deer not enough resistance to open it without hitting a rib, just guessing, don't know.

Every bullet made will open up more at higher speed given the same medium. Simple physics.

 

[dfanonymous]

Sorry I misread that: It wasn't a bad shot...it was the bullets fault. Got it.

Again i don't know. I wasn't there. You're not going to make me give you a definitive answer when I don't have one.

 

[mmacfive]

Talking about speed and expansion, I've got a weird one for you. Built a 22-243 shooting 50gr nosler bt at 4000fps, blows up a coyote. So I built a 20-250 that shoots a nosler 40gr bt at 4130 fps and it just pokes a little hole all the way through and doesn't expand, but shoot a prairie dog and it looks like it swallowed a grenade. And both are 12 twist. I want to shoot a coyote in the shoulder to test it more. And I've had the same experience with the Barnes is that they open up at higher speeds not slower. Possibly on a double lung shot on a deer not enough resistance to open it without hitting a rib, just guessing, don't know.

That's a conundrum. You're sure they aren't expanding and just a piece of the jacket is blowing through?

 

[mmacfive]

Again i don't know. I wasn't there. You're not going to make me give you a definitive answer when I don't have one.

I really think I understand now. Your brother-in-law lost a deer with a mono bullet at close range. Since it was never recovered there's no way to assign cause to shot placement or bullet failure. Obviously a mono bullet wasn't magic.

 

[6MM06AI]

That's a conundrum. You're sure they aren't expanding and just a piece of the jacket is blowing through?

Yeah, it's weird, it blows a little hole, the first yote I shot thought I missed, ran about 40 yards and tipped over. It should be simple physics but when it hits nothing but fur and lungs tiny hole in and out, I have noticed when it hits a rib has a way bigger exit hole. The last one I shot tipped over and kicked, no blood until I picked it up by the back legs, blood squirted out both holes. It was funny

 

[Greasegun]

I think the way I would have said it would be that the wind drift with a 177 Hammer is 25+% more than with high BC bullets like 180 ELDM or 195 Berger. BC is worth more at "long range" than many other attributes because sophisticated calculators now live in our optics. Drops are dead on, but the wind can and does change a LOT over 800-900 1200 yds. Diminished wind effect is priceless and that comes from 2 values: increased velocity and high BC. Hammers are great performers on game... unless you miss. When Steve figures a way to add a tip and improve BC, Ill be all over them Hammers.

Weight has a large effect on B.C. Copper is less dense than lead. The copper bullets will never perform the same as the lead core bullets with vld profiles.

 

[dfanonymous]

Weight is a byproduct of length. A BC of a bullet is more specific to sectional density and form factor. Long bullets tend to have higher BCs with a secant ogive. This is why a 264 cal in 147gr can have a greater BC than a 178gr .308 at a similar speed. The weight alone comes into play with other formulas like momentum in topics related but not limited to terminal performance.