"Long Range" 338 Federal with heavy bullets. What bullet?

[AcciDabbi]

I'm going to build myself a light rifle with a short barrel (16") for moose hunting. I have settle for the 338 Federal cartridge because I think this could be the best option for this built. There is a small amount of powder that will burn up inside the barrel and not creating a big muzzle flash and will not loose much fps in a short barrel. I can use relatively high bc bullets so that I can reach out for a longer distance if needed, but normal shooting distance will be under 200 yards. The cartridge is capable of delivering a fair amount of energy to the target and a little bit bigger hole in the target than the 30cal will do. And I can neck up 308 brass that is easy to find and components are chap. Keeping the training cost down.
I want to use heavy bullets for hunting. By that I mean between 210 and 225gr. I've done some calculations and found out that the heavy bullets and the light bullets has almost the same effective range on game. The light bullets are shorter and have a lower bc. This will cause them to loose velocity faster than a heavy bullet with higher bc. Therefore the same effective range.
I want to be able to shoot 300 yards if necessary. So for this I need a good bullet that will have proper expansion down to around 1800fps. As we all know, less speed is less destroyed meat
I have been thinking about using 210 tsx for its good reputation. This should have proper expansion at 1800fps, but I don't know if I can rely on this bullet at this speed. I've also have the 225 Nosler AccuBond in mind. Think that this may be a good option.
Do anyone else have a good option that will open quickly at lower speed? It needs to be a bullet with good bc. If not it will lose speed too quickly and the 300 yard shot will not be possible.
My calculations show that I should be able to push the 225gr AccuBond at 2230fps out of a 16" barrel.
What bullets do you use for long range hunting that you relay on?
Hope for some good options!

 

[scottishkat]

I had pretty good luck with the 210 swift sirocco its a bonded bullet like the NAB. I think the 200 gr NBT or the 210 gr NPT at slower speeds will probably be pretty good. Al least for heavy bullets. The large frontal diameter really ought to transfer a lot of energy fast at slower speeds. The only 225's I have tried were the HIB and they're long 1.440 inch. They did not impress.

What length will you be able to load to? If your COAL will be less than 2.850 the 225's will take up to much space. Why do you need a 16"bbl it seems like it would be a handicap my 338F is a Sako with a 22.5" and it handles quite well for me.

Everything I have harvested with it has been with the 185TSX. Never a bit of meat damage and always an exit. My furthest shot was probably about 180yds. I would not hesitate to shoot a moose with it but 300 is a long way for the 338f.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Somehow in my mind's eye the words " long range & .338 Federal" should never be used in the same sentence, isn't there a rule in English that forbids that !!!

 

[angus-5024]

I have thought of a similar build for a sheep gun (but 18" minimum in Canada). I just cant bring myself to limit my shots to 300 yards.
I think that for what your doing the 225 NAB, 210 TTSX or the 210 Swift would be about right. I had good luck with the 210 TTSX in .338 win mag, but depending on your magazine length, this bullet may be too long (mono metal bullets are long for their weight).
Let us know how it works out for you, I may have to follow suit!

 

[AcciDabbi]

I had pretty good luck with the 210 swift sirocco its a bonded bullet like the NAB. I think the 200 gr NBT or the 210 gr NPT at slower speeds will probably be pretty good. Al least for heavy bullets. The large frontal diameter really ought to transfer a lot of energy fast at slower speeds. The only 225's I have tried were the HIB and they're long 1.440 inch. They did not impress.

What length will you be able to load to? If your COAL will be less than 2.850 the 225's will take up to much space. Why do you need a 16"bbl it seems like it would be a handicap my 338F is a Sako with a 22.5" and it handles quite well for me.

Everything I have harvested with it has been with the 185TSX. Never a bit of meat damage and always an exit. My furthest shot was probably about 180yds. I would not hesitate to shoot a moose with it but 300 is a long way for the 338f.

Good luck and shoot straight

Bob

The barrel is not built yet, but the chamber will be made to take long coal.
16" is because it's easier to carry on the shoulder in the woods and to save weight. I'll also probably put a silencer on the barrel, so barrel needs to be short to keep the gun oal short and handy. It's mybe not all about that I HAVE to, or MUST keep the oal short. More that I just want to have a short, lightweight and handy rifle available for walking in the woods and on longer hunting trips.
The rifle is a Tikka T3 with a special threaded action so I can just screw the barrel in and out by hand. It's a great system, and precision lays in the area of 1/4moa all day with my 223 barrel in it.
HIB and NPT has been on my mind, but that would be for short range hunting. The low bc on those bullets will probably limit them to 200m.

Of course, this caliber is not for long range hunting, but the internal ballistics would be similar to a 225gr bullet shot from a 338 win mag at something standing at 600 yards. You need the high bc to reach out and keep the velocity high enough, and you need a bullet you can trust to open on a low velocity impact. That's the kind of experience I'd like to hear about

 

[AcciDabbi]

I have thought of a similar build for a sheep gun (but 18" minimum in Canada). I just cant bring myself to limit my shots to 300 yards.
I think that for what your doing the 225 NAB, 210 TTSX or the 210 Swift would be about right. I had good luck with the 210 TTSX in .338 win mag, but depending on your magazine length, this bullet may be too long (mono metal bullets are long for their weight).
Let us know how it works out for you, I may have to follow suit!

How far out have you shot any animal with the 210TTSX in 338 win mag? Any experience how the bullet preform at long distance?
I belive that the TTSX bullet is a little harder to get expansion at lower velocities than the TSX bullet.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Since you are velocity (fps) at the barrel limited by barrel length and case capacity your velocity and power will decay very quickly.

You can make minimum expansion velocity to only about 200 yards. If you want 300 yards you will need more powder capacity or a lighter bullet.

Barnes 185 TTSX leaving the muzzle at ~2450fps will make your goals to 300 yards. A 250 yard zero and it will be point and shoot. It should perform below 300 yards.

Nosler 200 Accubond at all the same speeds.

Have you considered a 338/06? 18" barrel. With a 6" can you are at 24". This will add 200 to 400 fps and lots more power for only a little more powder and barrel length.

 

[AcciDabbi]

Since you are velocity (fps) at the barrel limited by barrel length and case capacity your velocity and power will decay very quickly.

You can make minimum expansion velocity to only about 200 yards. If you want 300 yards you will need more powder capacity or a lighter bullet.

Barnes 185 TTSX leaving the muzzle at ~2450fps will make your goals to 300 yards. A 250 yard zero and it will be point and shoot. It should perform below 300 yards.

Nosler 200 Accubond at all the same speeds.

Have you considered a 338/06? 18" barrel. With a 6" can you are at 24". This will add 200 to 400 fps and lots more power for only a little more powder and barrel length.

I've done some theoretical calculations in QL and from a 16" barrel with the 185 and 210 tsx. Tsx should open up at 1800ft/sek. (this is max speed, not given good accuracy)

185 TSX MV 2515 1800ft/sek @ 315 yards and retained energy 1825 joules
210 TSX MV 2360 1800ft/sek @ 295 yards and retained energy 2075 joules

I'll say that they are both capable of 300 yards if they expand. But the 210gr carries more energy at the target..

 

[AcciDabbi]

After more calculations I actually found out that the 225gr AccuBond will go past both of the TSX bullets!
225gr AccuBond has a very high bc so will hold the speed better down range. Expanding at minimum 1800ft/sek (calculations made with theological max speed and coal 2.95")

MV 2265 1800ft/sek @ 340 yards and retained energy 2210 joules

This could be a winner load!

 

[RevJim]

I get a tad over 3000fps with the Barnes 160TTSX and 52gr of TAC ( use at your own discretion and risk, of course) It takes a drop tube and I then crimp it with a LEE FCD. I get .75" groupings from a 22" Ruger Hawkeye SS. Now, that is definitely "7mm mag" territory, but with a fatter bullet and mono construction. I have never taken a moose, but I know many are shot with 160gr 7mm mags....just saying. I got 2750 with that bullet and the MR2000 powder, which Barnes tech told me would work on elk out to 400yds...I think its the cats meow, ha.

 

[AcciDabbi]

I get a tad over 3000fps with the Barnes 160TTSX and 52gr of TAC ( use at your own discretion and risk, of course) It takes a drop tube and I then crimp it with a LEE FCD. I get .75" groupings from a 22" Ruger Hawkeye SS. Now, that is definitely "7mm mag" territory, but with a fatter bullet and mono construction. I have never taken a moose, but I know many are shot with 160gr 7mm mags....just saying. I got 2750 with that bullet and the MR2000 powder, which Barnes tech told me would work on elk out to 400yds...I think its the cats meow, ha.

I'm a fan of speedy bullets for fun, but not for hunting No offense
Well okay, varmints deserve speedy bullets with explosive result gun)
My moose hunt will normally be under 200y so I'd like to keep the speed down to destroy less meat.

 

[RevJim]

Understood...however, I have used Barnes since '95 in several calibers, fast and slow, and meat damage is not an issue with them. Woodleigh makes a 180 and a 200gr for the 338 Federal, it would be a good one too. Good luck to you Pard.

 

[FEENIX]

Somehow in my mind's eye the words " long range & .338 Federal" should never be used in the same sentence,

I agree; don't use my .338 WM in the same sentence. gun)

 

[AcciDabbi]

I agree; don't use my .338 WM in the same sentence. gun)

Hehe, you know, long range hunting have different means depending on who you ask.. Som says hunting at 200y is long range, some says 400y is extreme and my opinion is that long range hunting starts from the 6-700 range and out...
So if you see it from the poor 338 Federal cartridge's prospective :
100y h*ll yeah, no problem!!
200y come on, we can do this! gun)
300y are you sure? It's kinda looong range for me.... I'm not a 338 magnum.. But.. Okay

I believe that, as a hunter, the most important thing when hunting is to know your limitations AND you need to know your rifle/ammo limits!