Load development

[waveslayer]

Ummmm what's wrong with the one hole group with 180s?

Little groups are exciting, but often not repeatable without proper koad development. Need to verify SD, ES, and the node. What does the barrel do when it warms up, cold, hot etc.. proper load development will do that.

I have shoot a nice little bug hole, but all the velocities were all over the place, not a good load for anything past 600 yards, the ES will kill any groups

 

[southpa]

Little groups are exciting, but often not repeatable without proper koad development. Need to verify SD, ES, and the node. What does the barrel do when it warms up, cold, hot etc.. proper load development will do that.

I have shoot a nice little bug hole, but all the velocities were all over the place, not a good load for anything past 600 yards, the ES will kill any groups

Little groups are the goal.

But yes I'm aware of how and why we do load development.

 

[bowhunterjae]

Sorry for the delay. Internet is almost nonexistent right now at our house. Not sure what the problem is.Took me an hour to load pictures yesterday.
Thanks for all of the responses!
So with the smallest group (the first group)
2773fps with 67.7 H1000
2802.5 with 68 H1000
2763.5 with 68.3 H1000
Should I restart with 67.7 and go 1 or 2 grain increments up and try to find better ES?
Should I look several loads with same charge?
Barrel is broke in.
I have no pressure signs on brass or primers.
Thank you all for the help.

 

[Horse1]

1st thing I'd do w/that rifle is pull the front scope base mounting screw, polish and then sharpie the distal end, re-install/torque and look for contact. Then double-check torque on all the rest of the scope-base screws and scope rings/fasteners. Then I'd do the same on the front action screw. Id pull the action from the stock and make sure there's no contact between the stock inletting and the bottom of the mag box, the trigger adjustment screws, or safety lever.

A mechanically sound platform with a quality aftermarket bbl, stock, trigger, and scope doesn't bughole out of the gate and then proceed to have groups grow and wander.

SOB I've wasted a LOT of components due to front scope-base screws tightened down on the bbl tenon.

 

[waveslayer]

Sorry for the delay. Internet is almost nonexistent right now at our house. Not sure what the problem is.Took me an hour to load pictures yesterday.
Thanks for all of the responses!
So with the smallest group (the first group)
2773fps with 67.7 H1000
2802.5 with 68 H1000
2763.5 with 68.3 H1000
Should I restart with 67.7 and go 1 or 2 grain increments up and try to find better ES?
Should I look several loads with same charge?
Barrel is broke in.
I have no pressure signs on brass or primers.
Thank you all for the help.

some concerns, if there are no pressure signs then the increase in powder charges should show an increase in velocity. Have you overlaid the individual targets onto a sheet of paper? Mark the appropriate target and then look at the node, how is it looking?
I wouldn't do 1 grain increments, I think you meant .1 grain. You can always go 67.5, 67.7, 67.9, and 68.1. Round robin it, test what the barrel does for heat and the actual Node. Then again overlay all the targets on to a sheet of paper and mark the impacts. It is a good exercise to see what each group looks like overlayed to each other, @southpa anything you want to add?

 

[southpa]

What were the velocity readings for that 3 shot group in the low node?

 

[Horse1]

Something else to consider.

1. Ensure that you're not slapping the bbl w/the fore-end during recoil.

2. Also ensure that you're not dragging front/rear or both sling-swivel studs across your bags during recoil.

For hunting rifles I typically have less free-float clearance between the bbl and stock inlet. As such, I tend to run the front bag under the chamber rather than way out on the fore-end. That negates the front sling-stud dragging as well.

Do you trust the scope you have mounted?

Assuming the pics are in the chronological order you shot the groups, the issue looks mechanical to me. You start out with a nice tight group, a 2nd group that's not bad either and nice and round. After that, things really open up and randomly swing horizontal or vertical.

Something is touching and causing vibration where it ought not. Mounts, Rings, ring attachments to the mounts, mag box (might be too deep and touching the bottom metal or stock, might just not be seated/light crush fit properly in it's home in the belly of the action), bottom metal, trigger contact w/the stock. Bolt handle touching in the bolt journal when you cam into battery. Barrel not centered in the barrel channel of the stock. Muzzle brake shooting loose and "rattling" on the threads.

Get busy with a sharpie and find out what's touching that shouldn't be.

Of course there's always the chance it could be something awry inside the scope we cannot see/inspect as well. If nothing mechanical shows up, swap to a proven scope.

 

[bowhunterjae]

some concerns, if there are no pressure signs then the increase in powder charges should show an increase in velocity. Have you overlaid the individual targets onto a sheet of paper? Mark the appropriate target and then look at the node, how is it looking?
I wouldn't do 1 grain increments, I think you meant .1 grain. You can always go 67.5, 67.7, 67.9, and 68.1. Round robin it, test what the barrel does for heat and the actual Node. Then again overlay all the targets on to a sheet of paper and mark the impacts. It is a good exercise to see what each group looks like overlayed to each other, @southpa anything you want to add?

You are correct I mean .1(thank you). Ok, I will overlay targets. 3 sot groups or single?
Thank you!

 

[bowhunterjae]

1st thing I'd do w/that rifle is pull the front scope base mounting screw, polish and then sharpie the distal end, re-install/torque and look for contact. Then double-check torque on all the rest of the scope-base screws and scope rings/fasteners. Then I'd do the same on the front action screw. Id pull the action from the stock and make sure there's no contact between the stock inletting and the bottom of the mag box, the trigger adjustment screws, or safety lever.

A mechanically sound platform with a quality aftermarket bbl, stock, trigger, and scope doesn't bughole out of the gate and then proceed to have groups grow and wander.

SOB I've wasted a LOT of components due to front scope-base screws tightened down on the bbl tenon.

Thank you. I will try that.
Thank you!

 

[bowhunterjae]

What were the velocity readings for that 3 shot group in the low node?

2762/2769/2774 was the good node but not good group.
Good group was 2773/2802.5/2763.5
Thank you!

 

[bowhunterjae]

Something else to consider.

1. Ensure that you're not slapping the bbl w/the fore-end during recoil.

2. Also ensure that you're not dragging front/rear or both sling-swivel studs across your bags during recoil.

For hunting rifles I typically have less free-float clearance between the bbl and stock inlet. As such, I tend to run the front bag under the chamber rather than way out on the fore-end. That negates the front sling-stud dragging as well.

Do you trust the scope you have mounted?

Assuming the pics are in the chronological order you shot the groups, the issue looks mechanical to me. You start out with a nice tight group, a 2nd group that's not bad either and nice and round. After that, things really open up and randomly swing horizontal or vertical.

Something is touching and causing vibration where it ought not. Mounts, Rings, ring attachments to the mounts, mag box (might be too deep and touching the bottom metal or stock, might just not be seated/light crush fit properly in it's home in the belly of the action), bottom metal, trigger contact w/the stock. Bolt handle touching in the bolt journal when you cam into battery. Barrel not centered in the barrel channel of the stock. Muzzle brake shooting loose and "rattling" on the threads.

Get busy with a sharpie and find out what's touching that shouldn't be.

Of course there's always the chance it could be something awry inside the scope we cannot see/inspect as well. If nothing mechanical shows up, swap to a proven scope.

1) will do.
2) will do.
I will reposition towards the action when shooting.
Leupold vx6 hd. Torqued to specs.
I will take the rifle apart and see what I can find. I have not broken it down since I had it bedded and have not verified bottom metal fitment or trigger contact. I did have to Dremel for the safety on the Trigger when I got it back from Fitment. The safety was dragging, terribly on the side of the stock.
Thank you!

 

[Horse1]

1) will do.
2) will do.
I will reposition towards the action when shooting.
Leupold vx6 hd. Torqued to specs.
I will take the rifle apart and see what I can find. I have not broken it down since I had it bedded and have not verified bottom metal fitment or trigger contact. I did have to Dremel for the safety on the Trigger when I got it back from Fitment. The safety was dragging, terribly on the side of the stock.
Thank you!

Pull the action from the stock, remove the internal box, the put the action right back into the stock. Don't add the bottom-metal or any screws, just see if it'll rock front to back. The recoil lug is NOT supposed to be a Teeter-Totter fulcrum.

I'm not trying to start a scope whizzing match. If everything else checks out, swap scopes with one you KNOW is dependable, not just one that's "new".

 

[Justice1327]

Hay all,
Looking for a little insight from the crowd.
Started load development. For my new rifle.
I Found good es? (on my old chronograph). Loaded some rounds and just wasn't getting groups I wanted.
So I Invested in the new Garmin Chronograph and I started over.
This is what I have this go around.
Trying to give all of the information I have below.
7mm RM
Valhalla long magnum action with Wyatt box
Shilen match stainless barrel with 1-8" twist
Gentry quiet brake
Timney trigger set at 2 1/2 lbs
Redding type s sizing die, Redding seating die for Berger 168/180.
Peterson brass, Federal 215, 40 thousandth off jam.
Here are the powder charges, projectiles and speeds.
Thank you in advance,
John

Pictures of the groups tell a story

 

[bowhunterjae]

What were the velocity readings for that 3 shot group in the low node?

On another trip to the range I had a node at
2849 with 69.8g
2842 with 70g
2856 with 70.2g
Bad group.
I am going to strip rifle down and start over. Fitment gun smith is going through major health problems and I think he might have overlooked something besides the trigger safety fitment.
Thank you!