Load development

FURMAN

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odoylerules

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User4302021

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Alex's method works no doubt, but with a few caveats.

First, you have to have enough distance available to do a proper test.

Two, you have to have an exceptionally accurate rifle or your vertical will be too messy to decipher regardless.

Three, the shooter has to be good enough and experienced enough to hold vertical at a minimum.

That is a fairly tall order for a new shooter.
 

FURMAN

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Alex's method works no doubt, but with a few caveats.

First, you have to have enough distance available to do a proper test.

Two, you have to have an exceptionally accurate rifle or your vertical will be too messy to decipher regardless.

Three, the shooter has to be good enough and experienced enough to hold vertical at a minimum.

That is a fairly tall order for a new shooter.


Look, I do not try to be difficult but this is a long range hunting forum. Not the shoot deer at 100 yards forum. If you can not hold tight vertical either because you or your equipment are not capable you have absolute zero business long range hunting. If you desire to learn then this is still the best way to do that. If a rifle will hold .5 moa or less than ladder is perfect period. I would by no means call that exceptional. I have owned $500 rifles that would hold .5moa with proper(ladder or OCW) load development reliably and repeatable. If you do not have the distance use the OCW and if you want to be hunting at long range take the time to learn it. If not why are you on a long range hunting forum???
 

User4302021

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Look, I do not try to be difficult but this is a long range hunting forum. Not the shoot deer at 100 yards forum. If you can not hold tight vertical either because you or your equipment are not capable you have absolute zero business long range hunting. If you desire to learn then this is still the best way to do that. If a rifle will hold .5 moa or less than ladder is perfect period. I would by no means call that exceptional. I have owned $500 rifles that would hold .5moa with proper(ladder or OCW) load development reliably and repeatable. If you do not have the distance use the OCW and if you want to be hunting at long range take the time to learn it. If not why are you on a long range hunting forum???
I'm not knocking the practice or the method or the messenger. I'm just pointing out factors for consideration.

No need to take umbrage.
 

FURMAN

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I'm not knocking the practice or the method or the messenger. I'm just pointing out factors for consideration.

No need to take umbrage.

That was not directed at or towards you. I do not disagree with what you said. I am simply saying if you want to shoot long range then you have to learn to shoot long range. That includes your shooting skills as well as load development. This is one of the best places to do that. It is not easy as some may lead you to believe.
 

Satterlee Scott

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I'm glad you found you way into a great load development technique. When multiple folks separated by distance, space and time are coming up with the same technique is pretty exciting (great minds think alike). I'm fortunate to have 100 yards off my back porch and can load a test up in a few minutes and shoot it. I also get to shoot 8-10 rifle rounds annually. A few things to consider is, I have taken care of all of the brass prep possible from trim length, annealing, shoulder bump, using a mandrel for .0015 neck tension etc etc etc. I do this for everything from 223 to 338 LM. The video is a little old and I plan on doing another with Steve and Ed explaining ghost nodes which look good on the chronograph but don't shoot that well and how to handle smaller and larger cartridges. One of the reason I stick to 100 yards is I don't want to work my way into positive compensation (PC), which simplified is tuning your rifle for the slowest and highest velocity bullets leave at different points of barrel deflection and converge at the desired distance. This is awesome for F class and Bench rest guys and absolutely necessary to be competitive in the game they play. For Hunting I'm sure PC would fine as well most of the vital zones on bigger game animals are MOA or better to 1000 yards, but the what I like to do I need the load to be accurate and the ES to be low as well. My method wont work for everyone for a wide variety of reasons.
Ok so I just wanted to share how I do load development and to see how others do theirs. I found that I can get to a sweat spot in about 30 shots after break in.

1. 10 shot ladder test at. 2 grains increments to find a velocity flat spot. Let's say that 43.2 grains of whatever powder was a flat spot.

2. Using 43.2 grains, load 3 shots each of 030, .020, .010, and .0 off the lands. Let's say that. 020 gave the best group and low ES.

3. Using .020 of the lands, load 3 each of 43.0, 43.2, and 43.4 and see what does best.

This usually produces a sub MOA group with really low ES. Does anyone else have a way to get to a sweat spot faster or would just like to share how they do their load development?
 

Satterlee Scott

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Scott's method is misunderstood and misapplied because people don't realize that he is using slow for caliber powders and pushing heavy bullets 0.010" off the lands. The "flat spots" he sees are an artifact of high pressures and reaching the point of diminishing returns. The flat spots he is using are max - 1% off max.

Noobs start at book minimum and see flat spots that are merely a random artifact of large, inconsistent and overlapping ES's between charge increments at the lower pressures. Then they come onto forums like this and ask what they are doing wrong, and get even more confusing info from others who don't understand it either.
Additionally there are quite a few things that folks don't necessarily take care of properly during brass prep as well.
 

Capt RB

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When you do your Video Scott can you post a link? Also will the 6.5 guys change to the 6.0 guys now that they are looking to shoot the 6mms?:D
Thanks for sharing
 

Satterlee Scott

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I am talking about flat spots at the most accurate seating depth. So no it does not always work. You summed it up with your sometimes I start the process over. The ladder never fails with an accurate rifle and good components. If you are limited to 100 yards the OCW is the best way.
OCW is the best way without a good chronograph.
 
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