Load development

[bowhunterjae]

Pull the action from the stock, remove the internal box, the put the action right back into the stock. Don't add the bottom-metal or any screws, just see if it'll rock front to back. The recoil lug is NOT supposed to be a Teeter-Totter fulcrum.

I'm not trying to start a scope whizzing match. If everything else checks out, swap scopes with one you KNOW is dependable, not just one that's "new".

Thank you for that information.
I will do that.

 

[bowhunterjae]

Something else to consider.

1. Ensure that you're not slapping the bbl w/the fore-end during recoil.

2. Also ensure that you're not dragging front/rear or both sling-swivel studs across your bags during recoil.

For hunting rifles I typically have less free-float clearance between the bbl and stock inlet. As such, I tend to run the front bag under the chamber rather than way out on the fore-end. That negates the front sling-stud dragging as well.

Do you trust the scope you have mounted?

Assuming the pics are in the chronological order you shot the groups, the issue looks mechanical to me. You start out with a nice tight group, a 2nd group that's not bad either and nice and round. After that, things really open up and randomly swing horizontal or vertical.

Something is touching and causing vibration where it ought not. Mounts, Rings, ring attachments to the mounts, mag box (might be too deep and touching the bottom metal or stock, might just not be seated/light crush fit properly in it's home in the belly of the action), bottom metal, trigger contact w/the stock. Bolt handle touching in the bolt journal when you cam into battery. Barrel not centered in the barrel channel of the stock. Muzzle brake shooting loose and "rattling" on the threads.

Get busy with a sharpie and find out what's touching that shouldn't be.

Of course there's always the chance it could be something awry inside the scope we cannot see/inspect as well. If nothing mechanical shows up, swap to a proven scope.

Pull the action from the stock, remove the internal box, the put the action right back into the stock. Don't add the bottom-metal or any screws, just see if it'll rock front to back. The recoil lug is NOT supposed to be a Teeter-Totter fulcrum.

I'm not trying to start a scope whizzing match. If everything else checks out, swap scopes with one you KNOW is dependable, not just one that's "new".

Ok, action is very solid in the stock with box removed. No teeter totter.
Box and screw holes to action are extremely low tolerance. As I had to tap screws out of stock after removing action. They are dead on in alignment with action but tighter than any stock gun I own.
Trigger and safety show no signs of contact.
Night force rail torque to 35#
All 4 screws front ring of scope to 28# as well as all 4 screws on rear ring.
Muzzle break, hand tight with no slop.
Maybe I miss something first go around. I just loaded another string in .3 grain increments from 67.6 to 71.9 H 1000. 25 thousnds off jam. Using new brass (Nosler) that I had laying around.

 

[bowhunterjae]

Ok, action is very solid in the stock with box removed. No teeter totter.
Box and screw holes to action are extremely low tolerance. As I had to tap screws out of stock after removing action. They are dead on in alignment with action but tighter than any stock gun I own.
Trigger and safety show no signs of contact.
Night force rail torque to 35#
All 4 screws front ring of scope to 28# as well as all 4 screws on rear ring.
Muzzle break, hand tight with no slop.
Maybe I miss something first go around. I just loaded another string in .3 grain increments from 67.6 to 71.9 H 1000. 25 thousnds off jam. Using new brass (Nosler) that I had laying around.
Thank you All for your help!
If anything to add please let me know. I am here to learn.
Thank you again!

 

[Horse1]

Ok, action is very solid in the stock with box removed. No teeter totter.
Box and screw holes to action are extremely low tolerance. As I had to tap screws out of stock after removing action. They are dead on in alignment with action but tighter than any stock gun I own.
Trigger and safety show no signs of contact.
Night force rail torque to 35#
All 4 screws front ring of scope to 28# as well as all 4 screws on rear ring.
Muzzle break, hand tight with no slop.
Maybe I miss something first go around. I just loaded another string in .3 grain increments from 67.6 to 71.9 H 1000. 25 thousnds off jam. Using new brass (Nosler) that I had laying around.
Thank you All for your help!
If anything to add please let me know. I am here to learn.
Thank you again!

Pillar bedded? What stock? What's causing the action screws to be tight in their holes? That should not be. Is there bedding material in there? The screws should drop free with plenty of clearance. Use a drill bit or a small round file to knock down the high spots.

On the action you're using, does the front action screw hole go all the way through to the bolt-lug journal, or does it not go through? Pull the stock from the action and shine a light in there. If the threaded hole doesn't go all the way through, should it? It's easy to get bedding material stuck up there, especially if the person doing the bedding is potentially ill and maybe not doing their best work. If it's plugged w/bedding material, run the action screw in and it should pop out, or you can use a tap, most likely tap size would be 1/4-28.

Is your mag-box contacting the stock @ the front or rear? Sides, one or both sides? Color with a Sharpie and look for marks/rubs.

Did you double check to make sure the front-most screw holding the rail to the receiver isn't contacting the barrel tenon? Sandpaper or wire-wheel the end, then color with a sharpie, install, torque, remove, and see if there are any marks in the sharpie color indicating contact.

 

[southpa]

2762/2769/2774 was the good node but not good group.
Good group was 2773/2802.5/2763.5
Thank you!

Shoot it again. Sometimes people try and make it more complicated than it is.

 

[Byrdman13]

Not sure what you use for your load work-up process but I found this series very informative. It's long but I feel well worth the time spent watching.

 

[waveslayer]

You are correct I mean .1(thank you). Ok, I will overlay targets. 3 sot groups or single?
Thank you!

Do 5 shots, 1 shot per load, repeat. Start lowest charge to highest, second round is highest load to lowest, etc. This will test heat and what the loads do.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I kind have read the other comments. This was a great many years ago. 150Gr Nosler Partition. 66.4 grs of H 4831, Fed 210 primes in winchester brass. FPS was around 3050 so it's not a hot load. The rifle was a 700 Rem BDL. Out of the box and with about 50+ round down the tube. Grouping in the 1/2" area.
I see that you are using Mag Primers. You are not shooting something that in the 80gr + area for powder loads. I would try and use Fed 210 on just large rifle primers. Twist rate is good. Mag primers can be violent, and you don't get a good group with them. That's been my take on Mag primers. I would also like at H4350, but you seem to be after heavy bullets, then the slower powder will do.
I am not a fan of Partition bullets but that was what my brother uses. I shot the rifle and know how it grouped. the other is you can run up your powder loads by .5grs, but watching for pressure signs each shot. I generally do the increase powder load to find how the rifle is handing the pressure. You might find that you can increase the powder load above the max load in the manuals. Any time you change the gap on the bullet to lands you need to reduce you powder load, but move up only shooting a single shot then increase your powder load looking for flatton primer, but not creator, ejector marks.
I did see where you got a couple great groups too.

 

[bowhunterjae]

So much great information to digest. I stripped rifle down removed tight spots. Re torqued everything. Watched 3 hours of suggested videos (lots to retain) started with virgin brass and loaded some rounds.
I shot last night. Way better groups but not sure about es and longer shots. Barrel is over 100 shot mark now so I am going to scrub and shoot 20 shots then try to dial in further.
Here is what happened at the range.
Garmin chronograph, 24" barrel, no signs of pressure on brass and easy ejection with no drag.
Any input on speed or POI would be awesome.
I did get way better groups. 1 1/2" with all the different charges. Shot #2&3 same hole 4&5 same hole. Several others very close. Just unsure about es and seating depth. These were 25 thousands off jam.
Thank you again to everyone!

 

[bowhunterjae]

I kind have read the other comments. This was a great many years ago. 150Gr Nosler Partition. 66.4 grs of H 4831, Fed 210 primes in winchester brass. FPS was around 3050 so it's not a hot load. The rifle was a 700 Rem BDL. Out of the box and with about 50+ round down the tube. Grouping in the 1/2" area.
I see that you are using Mag Primers. You are not shooting something that in the 80gr + area for powder loads. I would try and use Fed 210 on just large rifle primers. Twist rate is good. Mag primers can be violent, and you don't get a good group with them. That's been my take on Mag primers. I would also like at H4350, but you seem to be after heavy bullets, then the slower powder will do.
I am not a fan of Partition bullets but that was what my brother uses. I shot the rifle and know how it grouped. the other is you can run up your powder loads by .5grs, but watching for pressure signs each shot. I generally do the increase powder load to find how the rifle is handing the pressure. You might find that you can increase the powder load above the max load in the manuals. Any time you change the gap on the bullet to lands you need to reduce you powder load, but move up only shooting a single shot then increase your powder load looking for flatton primer, but not creator, ejector marks.
I did see where you got a couple great groups too.

Well. I will definitely experiment with Fed Large rifle primers I have plenty of other large rifle and magnum primers Federal, CCI, Remington, and Winchester. I have never tried anything else besides Fed 215 in the 7mm REM Mag.
I just finished up a Tika 7 Rem Mag with H4831 that loves 160's. I wanted to try 180's with this rifle but if I don't get good es or good groups out to 500 I could change that.
Thank you!

 

[Horse1]

So much great information to digest. I stripped rifle down removed tight spots. Re torqued everything. Watched 3 hours of suggested videos (lots to retain) started with virgin brass and loaded some rounds.
I shot last night. Way better groups but not sure about es and longer shots. Barrel is over 100 shot mark now so I am going to scrub and shoot 20 shots then try to dial in further.
Here is what happened at the range.
Garmin chronograph, 24" barrel, no signs of pressure on brass and easy ejection with no drag.
Any input on speed or POI would be awesome.
I did get way better groups. 1 1/2" with all the different charges. Shot #2&3 same hole 4&5 same hole. Several others very close. Just unsure about es and seating depth. These were 25 thousands off jam.
Thank you again to everyone!

Looks like you rectified the mechanical issues. You're to the point now you can change 1 thing at a time until you're happy.

I wouldn't/don't worry much about ES with virgin brass. Size for ~ .002 shoulder bump, trim, clean up the primer pocket/flash-hole and see what it does. W/FF'd brass that's prepped properly expect to see your ES/SD drop and become pretty predictable. .3gn = +/- xx FPS type predictability.

 

[bowhunterjae]

Looks like you rectified the mechanical issues. You're to the point now you can change 1 thing at a time until you're happy.

I wouldn't/don't worry much about ES with virgin brass. Size for ~ .002 shoulder bump, trim, clean up the primer pocket/flash-hole and see what it does. W/FF'd brass that's prepped properly expect to see your ES/SD drop and become pretty predictable. .3gn = +/- xx FPS type predictability.

That is good to know!