Little help please

[Remmy700]

Have a like new sendero with less than 20 rnds fired. Got gun on trade. Ordered nosler brass for it with h1000 and 168 Berger classic hunters. Took it to the range today to do load test. Sighted NF in with remington core lock ammo and it did fine. First group with Bergers was .500 as was second. Problem I am having is I am not getting heavy bolt lift but have to put extremely excessive force to move bolt rearward. Started load test at 68gr of h1000 and have zero pressure signs with brass. Had no issues with remington factory loaded core locks. Any ideas? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Mikecr]

Sounds like action timing to me. The case should be extracted by full bolt turn.
I'd get a gunsmith to look at it.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The caliber of the rifle would be extremely helpful in diagnosing your issue...

 

[Remmy700]

7mm Rem mag

 

[MudRunner2005]

Sounds to me like you have a chamber that's out of spec, or too hot of a load...

 

[Remmy700]

After looking at brass there is a small scratch right below shoulder on all of them. I am going to polish chamber but still don't get it, what gives? I mean I would think with a chamber problem the factory ammo would have slight problems not just handloads. Maybe that load of h1000 at 68gr and above is to stout. Guess I will do a load of book min and try and see if anything changes. I dunno. Thank u all for your help.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Heya Remmy....

If you send me your data, I'll run it through Quikload and see what it says.

Already got your caliber, bullet, bullet length, powder and powder charge.

Need your barrel length, usually 26 for the senderos, but never know!
Case length
COAL


Also... Did you get the sticky bolt on your powder charge of 68, or did it start as powder charge increased? If it happened on increase, at what powder charge did it begin? Did you get any velocity measurements for your load workups? If so, what were you getting?

Thanks... And I'll post what quikload spits out if it looks half-way correct.

Boss

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

I just ran it using standard coal... and case size. since my database doesn't have the new hybrid bullet, I adjusted the length to match the hybrid, however, the amount of bearing surface, length of boattail, etc are from the vld. It should still be in the ballpark. I'm not seeing any issues with hot loads at 68 grs, but it is variable from rifle to rifle, and case to case. Some cases have much less volume than others which does increase pressure and velocity. l'd be interested to see what kind of speed you are getting out of the rounds you shot. If less than 3025 fps... I'd definitely have a gunsmith take a sneak peak at her.

Good luck.

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch or 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 54.40 2274 1929 26664 9175 88.5 1.810
-18.0 83 55.76 2334 2032 28449 9506 90.0 1.763
-16.0 85 57.12 2395 2139 30363 9825 91.5 1.717
-14.0 87 58.48 2456 2250 32411 10133 92.8 1.671
-12.0 89 59.84 2517 2364 34606 10426 94.1 1.627
-10.0 91 61.20 2579 2481 36961 10703 95.2 1.584
-08.0 93 62.56 2641 2601 39488 10963 96.3 1.535
-06.0 95 63.92 2703 2725 42204 11203 97.2 1.487
-04.0 97 65.28 2765 2851 45123 11422 98.0 1.440
-02.0 99 66.64 2827 2980 48267 11619 98.6 1.395
+00.0 101 68.00 2888 3112 51657 11791 99.2 1.352
+02.0 103 69.36 2950 3246 55314 11937 99.6 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 105 70.72 3011 3383 59267 12057 99.8 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 107 72.08 3072 3521 63547 12148 100.0 1.230 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 73.44 3133 3662 68187 12213 100.0 1.192 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 74.80 3193 3804 73227 12269 100.0 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 68.00 3034 3433 63042 11366 100.0 1.244 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 68.00 2684 2687 41862 11456 92.9 1.489

 

[Remmy700]

Thanks for the info buddy. I figured the 68 was a pretty safe start as I have seen pet loads with same setup in low 70 gr. also emailed berger and their stated max load with H1000 is 69.5 gr. I did 68 to 68.9 in .3 gr increments. The bolt problem started immediately with 68 and stayed same through all loads. But as stated sighted in with core locks and also shot a few core locks in between load test with no issues. I am going to polish the chamber as I feel the bud mark on brass is the culprit. Should not be an extractor problem as it is definetly working. Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it.

 

[Mikecr]

I am not getting heavy bolt lift but have to put extremely excessive force to move bolt rearward.

This is not a good sign from your gun.
Look at how the bolt handle rides an extraction ramp(on the action) on opening turn.
The bolt should engage that ramp early enough to free cases(even those left with interference fit) with full opening turn.

Typically when a case is stuck or over-lengthened in the chamber, bolt turn is very difficult. You might have witnessed shooters beating the bolt handle with a shoe to complete it's turn. Sometimes they have to beat the bolt rearward as well, but this amounts to a combination bad timing AND hot loads. Sometimes they tear the rim off the chambered case, which sucks.

Doesn't sound like you have a hot load, and without extraction assist from that ramp(extraction on rearward pull only), even normal case extraction would be difficult.

 

[Barrelnut]

This is not a good sign from your gun.
Look at how the bolt handle rides an extraction ramp(on the action) on opening turn.
The bolt should engage that ramp early enough to free cases(even those left with interference fit) with full opening turn.

Typically when a case is stuck or over-lengthened in the chamber, bolt turn is very difficult. You might have witnessed shooters beating the bolt handle with a shoe to complete it's turn. Sometimes they have to beat the bolt rearward as well, but this amounts to a combination bad timing AND hot loads. Sometimes they tear the rim off the chambered case, which sucks.

Doesn't sound like you have a hot load, and without extraction assist from that ramp(extraction on rearward pull only), even normal case extraction would be difficult.

I agree. Sometimes when shooting Remingtons, I forget to continue raising the bolt far enough to engage the function of the extraction ramp on the action. When I do this, I have the exact symptoms described.

 

[MudRunner2005]

After looking at brass there is a small scratch right below shoulder on all of them. I am going to polish chamber but still don't get it, what gives? I mean I would think with a chamber problem the factory ammo would have slight problems not just handloads. Maybe that load of h1000 at 68gr and above is to stout. Guess I will do a load of book min and try and see if anything changes. I dunno. Thank u all for your help.

Oh, also, it could be over-worked brass, that is old and in need of replacement, because it's lost some of its stretch.

Or, if you've used that brass in another gun, each chamber will be different. You'll need to FL size the brass before using the same brass in different rifles.

 

[Remmy700]

Well polished chamber this morning with steel on a brass brush and seems to have helped. I chambered the brass I shot yesterday and it removed them with little effort. Also this brass was all brand new nosler brass so definetly not overworked brass. Thanks to all of u. I loaded up some more test rnds and I will give it a try again tomorrow. If it comes back I will either take to the smith or send back to remington. Thanks to all.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well polished chamber this morning with steel on a brass brush and seems to have helped. I chambered the brass I shot yesterday and it removed them with little effort. Also this brass was all brand new nosler brass so definetly not overworked brass. Thanks to all of u. I loaded up some more test rnds and I will give it a try again tomorrow. If it comes back I will either take to the smith or send back to remington. Thanks to all.

I would never send a gun back to the manufacturer for something that can be fixed and made better by a gunsmith. If the smith says it should go back, then send it back. But if the smith says he can fix it....I'd go that route.