Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

Discussion in 'Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)' started by EXPRESS, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone know base size of 585 Orca brass..Ed
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Another view of 375HE AP target gun. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....




    Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,

    [​IMG]


    Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making

    our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,,.... Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action

    between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,

    375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without

    having to do extreme rebating of the rim...Ed
     
  6. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

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    That would be super cool.
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Here is picture of 620 416 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,

    that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.

    There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have

    1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed..

    This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make

    them we can give the steps involved...Ed.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416

    easier to get powders to work with, with less problems ..

    So if you got to buy new barrel, don't have 375 barrel

    and building new a target gun, maybe go

    with 416, we got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM...

    CEB and others will have bullets...

    CEB will be making .408 and .416 Lazers

    .408 ---- 425gr, 450gr and 475gr

    .416 ------ 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

    They will be testing around mid-February..

    My bigger diameter, 34" long 416 test barrel, was 250 bucks,

    1-10 twist, 1- 5/8 inch diameter, work for bullets, 425-450gr or so..;Ed..
     
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  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems .

    Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
    did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
    side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

    I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
    no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

    And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
    more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
    hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

    And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
    15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..


    [​IMG]
     
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  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Here is a drawing depicting the layoutof thick and thin sided cases,

    like my 585/375/416 HE thin sides ones and the thick one.

    And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the

    heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there

    shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.

    The dotted line is what it should be. ..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides. Ed.
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned..5th one is present 585 HE]
    and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added.

    [​IMG]

    In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
    Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
    not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......

    Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from ...they had thin sides
    and sharp transition, and then I tested these 20 years ago, and they would separate after -4-6 hot loads
    as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
    416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
     
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
    'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
    could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''

    Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
    size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.

    Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
    416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.

    Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
    stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
    speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..

    . Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
    contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
    be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.

    Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
    same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
    side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
    just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .

    [​IMG]


    Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
    using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  14. THEIS

    THEIS Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    The easiest "remedy" to all the case thickness vs MV vs burn rate is for us to stop trying to put 1000 pounds of feathers into a 500 pound capacity sack lolol....
    aka
    Go up to BMG sized actions and stop trying to put everything into a magnum sized action.
    Also since speed is king...stop going to heavier bullets and go to better designed yet lighter in weight for caliber bullets. Reminiscent to the 6mm guys going to lighterweight bullets but yet getting better down range ballistics....

    Sincerely,
    THEIS