Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

EXPRESS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
446
Location
Aussie in Italy
I'm interested to hear about the .460 Styer .416 Barret .408 & .375 Cheytac. The .50BMG is prohibited in this country so let's leave it out as it's also in its own category.

The .460 gets close to the .50, but the .408 CT seems to fly supersonic farther.
The .416 doesn't seem to have that much populairty,
While the .375 CT is enjoying a lot of sucess presumably due to the bullets available for it.
I haven't been able to find consistent info on the speeds people are getting and what weights bullets are stabilizing.

So what is hot for true ELR?
 

ELR Researcher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
1,372
I'm interested to hear about the .460 Styer .416 Barret .408 & .375 Cheytac. The .50BMG is prohibited in this country so let's leave it out as it's also in its own category.

The .460 gets close to the .50, but the .408 CT seems to fly supersonic farther.
The .416 doesn't seem to have that much populairty,
While the .375 CT is enjoying a lot of sucess presumably due to the bullets available for it.
I haven't been able to find consistent info on the speeds people are getting and what weights bullets are stabilizing.

So what is hot for true ELR?
Seems you have already answered your question. Should note that the .460 Steyr is almost never seen in the US for lack of brass. As best I know, AAA Ammunition in Nebraska is the only US company that has taken the time to form brass (from Winchester .50 BMG) and offer ammo.

Wildcats based on the .50 BMG, .375 CT, and now on the .585 Hubel cases, seem to have the most promise. A full 2 miles is not yet here with any consistency or volume of shooters.

Do you have places to shoot that distance in Italy?
 

30mm Vulcan Cannon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
60
Location
Sugar Land, TX
Seems you have already answered your question. Should note that the .460 Steyr is almost never seen in the US for lack of brass. As best I know, AAA Ammunition in Nebraska is the only US company that has taken the time to form brass (from Winchester .50 BMG) and offer ammo.

Wildcats based on the .50 BMG, .375 CT, and now on the .585 Hubel cases, seem to have the most promise. A full 2 miles is not yet here with any consistency or volume of shooters.

Do you have places to shoot that distance in Italy?
Is there a 585 Hubel necked down to 30 and 375?
 

EXPRESS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
446
Location
Aussie in Italy
Seems you have already answered your question.

Do you have places to shoot that distance in Italy?

So which caliber is best suited, or does it come down to preferance and components availability?

As far as I know, mine is the only range in the country where ypu can reach 2 miles.
 

ELR Researcher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
1,372
So which caliber is best suited, or does it come down to preferance and components availability?

As far as I know, mine is the only range in the country where ypu can reach 2 miles.
"Best suited"...a .50 BMG wildcat and a very long barrel or a .50/20 and a VERY long barrel (IMO). If neither are legal in Italy, then I'd consider sizing .50 BMG down to a caliber where there are excellent projectiles available. Right now that would seem to be .375. The .50 BMG case can be shortened to improve efficiency AND, most importantly, you can get excellent brass (Lapua and RWS, alpha sort).

Please tell us more about "your" range. If open to the public, or by membership in a club, I'll add it to my Ranges page.
 

TXAoudadKlr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,577
Location
Houston,TX
Not familiar with the Warlord. I don't think they've explored any other wildcats based off the parent case. I think it was specifically made for the KO2M.
 

yorke-1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
1,213
Location
Clearwood, WA
Is it the same as the 375 Warlord?

Based on listed velocities on link, it seems close to 375 AM

What velocities does the 30-585 Hubel get?
I think its pretty similar to the 375 Warlord. They're all going to be somewhat limited by powders though. Like they mention on the LPA website, use of the 400+ grain bullets will be limited because there just aren't powders out there slow enough to make full use of the case capacity with bullets that heavy.

I have a reamer print drawn up for a .458 off of the Barrett case that I wanted to use for a super heavy ELR gun. I just don't have time to really start working on it, so it's kind of on hold right now.
 

EXPRESS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
446
Location
Aussie in Italy
I'd love to have you put "my" range on your website, here is a little more info:

It is situated in the rolling hills of Tuscany, Italy, on a hunting reserve.

There are two separate ranges, one on open plains with a dozen AR500 targets from 300m out to 1250m in an almost straight line of fire.

Then there is another range with targets beginning at 1100m, then 1450m, 1610m (1mile) 1860 (1 Nautical mile) 2600m, 2800m, 3220m (2 miles).

This range is in the process of being set up, with steel on its way for some really big targets, around the 3 MOA mark, with the largest, the 2 mile target being ten and a half by ten feet!
I like to have big targets with painted 1MOA bullseyes so that you get more hits and a better chance to spot near misses.

Access is only open to guests/clients of the hunting reserve, though we may establish a sporting association in the future as a club.

We will be offering packages for foreign guests covering everything from airport pickup and help with clearing rifles, accommodation, meals, transport to and from range, refreshments on site etc.

Long range hunting is also available there for red, roe and fallow deer and wild boar.

Costs will be put together in the near future.

Once the ELR section is up and running I will start shooting with my .338 Lapua IMP and see what can be done before I drop the hammer on the rifle I've got my eye on, the DTA HTI, possibly in .460 Styer, also because I am about to start in a collaboration making bullets with a CNC lathe, so there may be more options open to me for reloading that cartridge.

By October I hope it will be ready to receive guests.
 

ELR Researcher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
1,372
EXPRESS

E-mail sent re getting your range listed on my site.

In re the DTA HTI in 460 Steyr, seems you like that cartridge a lot. What are you going to be doing for brass?

I'd spend some time dialoging with Desert Tech to find smiths in Italy and the surrounding area that have experience in rebarreling an HTI. USRA (in California) has 3-4 shooters using that platform and at least one who has done a rebarrel, a non-trivial matter.

While I am not familiar with any folks doing it with a lot of gusto, I'd seriously consider "preparing" the ground around your steel to show splash. That will, at minimum, involve removing vegetation and, possibly, adding "splash material" (possibly bringing over some of the earth from the shorter distance range, even sifting it out to make the splash more noticeable). In URSA we use the RTAC I.R.I.S. system which is a lot more friendly for hit identification than trying to "see" hits. [Their are video-based systems available but my experience with them is that they are not very easily seen at the shooters location, especially in bright light, and they also seem to always off to the side such that the video image is significantly distorted.]

Now that you probably have the large steel on order, too late to suggest much smaller targets. IMO, hitting a target roughly the size of the end of a barn does not bring much "excitement" to prospective shooters. In any case, making the commitment and actually doing what you are doing deserves a huge BRAVO! Best of luck.
 

EXPRESS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
446
Location
Aussie in Italy
Thanks, I don't have any emails or PM regarding your site, not could I find a "contact" link on it??

I'd like to give you more details and put together a Facebook page for it too.

As for the .460 Brass, I could either get some turned and form, or just shoot Styer factory anmo to start with.

I got 100 pieces for special brass made up for me on CNC lathe and it cost me just a bit more than Lapua brass!! No headstamp, but I can live with that.
I also considered getting a barrel made up, also because the fact that the HTI is a bullpup to me means it's a waste to not have a 30-33" barrel on it considering it will absorb it in overall length.
Wildcats are mostly off the cards here, which is why the .460 might be the easiest choice. The .375 CT is very appealing to me, but I find the two to be so far apart that it makes a decision difficult.
No hurry on this, I've got enough going on with rifles as it is.
 

EXPRESS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
446
Location
Aussie in Italy
And as for preparing the ground to show splash, it's practically impossible, because you would have to clear enourmous areas, due to the perspective and lay of the ground.

The 2 mile target is on flat ground, with a brushy hill behind it, and the ground here is clay, covered with grasses and a layer of decomposing leaf litter. It is quite rare to have the possibility to see spalsh and we rely on bullet trails a lot.

The 2600m and 2800m are on clear open ground with very little grass which can show hits if the ground is dry.

I don't find it to be any less rewarding to hit a 3MOA target at 2 miles, and there is always the possibility to put another target nearby as the challenger.
 
Top