Left @ 300 yds - Right @ 1000 yds? WTH?

Thanks meichele,

Those visuals clearly illustrate instructional intent that horizontal coriolis bullet drift is in-play regardless of the azimuth of fire - line of fire. Shoot any horizontal direction you want on the face of the earth and the bullet drifts right (from the shooter's perspective) in the northern hemisphere, and drifts left (from the shooter's perspsective) in the southern hemisphere.

Saying it another way - your bullets will hit right of POA north of the equator, and left of POA south of the equator. The farther you're located from the equator, and the closer you are to the poles, the greater the drift over equivalent distances of fire.

I'll sleep better now... :cool:

North and South I see because of the rotation, but not east & west.
 
According to Gerald Perry (Designer od ExBall) the reason that Exball does not include Corrolis Effect is because that maximum effect for the 308 Milltary Sniper round (with the 175 SMK) is less than a scopes adjustment at 1000 yards. In other words less than 1/4 MOA. Coriolis is important to Artillery and Mortor rounds because thry are in the air for a long period of time. Also Corriolis effct is definately direction oriented shooting East and West has no Corriolis Effect. Thie approach works for me out to as far As I have practiced and that's all that I can go by. I have not seen anywhere near the "spin drift" that is being claimed here. On days that I have no percieved wind I do not find that I am consistently shooting to one side of my POA. Yes Spin Drift does exist, but with the bullets that I shoot it is nowhere near the amount that is being claimed by some of these programs with the bullets that are fired from my rifles.


The Mysterious Coriolis Effect


The PC Exbal version does include both spindrift calculation, which can be selected to be included in windage calculations or not, and Coriolis force effects (select latitude and direction shooting to get this figure), which cannot be included into the windage calculations. Exbal indicates that there is a R or L component to Coriolis force as well as vertical component. For instance, I'm at about 48 deg N latitude where I practice shooting to 1K + and typically shooting in about a 330 deg True direction. The effect of the Coriolis force for my set up at 1K is calculated by Exbal at 2.9" R and 1.4" low. If I'm shooting 1K at the reciprocal direction of 150 deg True, the numbers are 2.8" R and 1.4" high. If I combine this with the spindrift calculation (Exbal says to shoot for this calculation at 500-600yds. My guess is that if you went much farther than this in shooting in STILL conditions to check spindrift that there would start to be enough effect from Coriolis force that effectively isolating the spindrift effect itself would be difficult--I'm not sure--would like to quiz Perry on that) it has explained almost perfectly the groups I routinely get at 880 or so and 1K+ that I had really been scratching my head at. This is all just educated (hopefully) guessing on my part. I need to do much more shooting to confirm.
 
Interesting videos meichele and I understand what your saying,but I guess Im not convinced its true over a much shorter course of fire.A 1000 yds for example.With the limited experience Ive had shooting 30 cal 185 and 210 VLDs out to 1000 yds,I guess Ive never had "conditions" perfect enough to notice spin drift or coriolis effects on my shots.Certainly not to the magnitude the original poster of the thread has experienced anyway.


That shouldnt be a suprise. I have been lucky enough to test in some dead still air. The most right hand impacts I have ever had on a still session were 10-12" This really isnt much at all at 1K. this is coriolus and spin drift combined. Also I and the original poster live much closer to the north pole than you in the lower 48. We will see a hair more of the effects. If there were any wind at all it would be near impossible to differentiate between wind drift and anyother forces. This is why so many shooters never experiance it. They chalk it up to a missjudgment in wind.
 
Re: Coriolis Info - According to LoadBase 2.0

All of the italics text below is taken directly from Patagonia Ballistic's LoadBase 2.0 users manual. I understand all of this text except for the underlined portion of the very last sentence. Can anyone tell me what that means? First it seems to infer that vertical deflection is maximum at the equator, but then it states that BOTH deflections (vertical and horizontal) are null at the Equator...

Beyond my question, this text clearly states that the direction of fire is required to determine vertical deflection (high or low hits), but that horizontal deflection (horizontal drift) is independent of the shooter's direction of fire (Azimuth). Working with the program, both horizontal drift and vertical deflections are maximum at the poles of the earth and have zero values at the equator.

I have underlined the word Azimuth in the sentence addressing vertical deflection to emphasize that the direction of fire is a required factor to calculate vertical coriolis deflections. And I have underlined the input parameters required to calculate horizontal coriolis drift to make it clear that the quantity of horizontal drift is completely independent of Azimuth (direction of fire).

Hope this is helpful.

PS: If anyone can explain that last sentence to me, I'd be grateful!


"Coriolis acceleration has two fundamental effects, sometimes not clearly distinguished one from the other.

First, a vertical deflection which balances Velocity, Distance, Latitude and Azimuth ( bearing ) to the target.

The second one, the horizontal deflection, takes into account Velocity, Latitude and Distance.

The effect depends upon where on the Earth's surface the gun is and the cardinal direction to the target.

For example, shooting at a target with a 270° azimuth ( from East to West ) causes an impact slightly lower than is experienced when shooting in the opposite direction.

Easterly bearing causes high shots, while westerly bearing causes low shots.

As one moves to higher latitudes ( north or south ) from the Equator, the apparent lateral movement of the bullet becomes greater

This acceleration has two fundamental effects, sometimes not clearly distinguished one from the other.

First, a vertical deflection which balances Velocity, Distance, Latitude and Azimuth ( bearing ) to the target.

The second one, the horizontal deflection, takes into account Velocity, Latitude and Distance.

The HORIZONTAL deflection will cause a bullet to drift to the right in the northern hemisphere and to the left in the southern hemisphere.

The VERTICAL deflection will cause a bullet to fall short or long, in terms of distance, since the Coriolis force ( a fictitious one ) makes gravity to weaken a little or get some reinforcement, this depending on the azimuth of the target.

The difference in the length of the trajectory is due to the velocity imparted to the projectile by the rotation of the earth.

Drift from Coriolis acceleration is maximum at the poles and negligible at the Equator.

The acceleration also affects range, but in the opposite sense, being maximum when fired along the Equator and negligible at the poles, and both deflections are null at the Equator line.
"
 
To get really nit picky:

Density Variations
Variations in the density of rocks in the Earths lithosphere (the outer layer of the earth, including the crust and the uppermost part of the mantle) cause local variations in gravity. Companies such as Ark Geophysics measure and analyse these variations to predict where oil, gas and minerals are most likely to be found underground. Very large structures such as mountain ranges and ocean basins can lead to variations of up to 0.05%. Variations due to rock structures related to oil (e.g. salt domes) and metal ore bodies are very small, but can be measured as anomalies (unexplained local highs or lows) that occur within small geographical areas.

Go here for further insight. Its a wonder that anyone hits anything..:)

BBC News | SCI/TECH | New gravity map released
 
if anyone starts carring a devise to analyze the rocks underneath, before taking a shot, i think that would put them in the "techno geek" catagory!
 
To get really nit picky:

Density Variations
Variations in the density of rocks in the Earths lithosphere (the outer layer of the earth, including the crust and the uppermost part of the mantle) cause local variations in gravity. Companies such as Ark Geophysics measure and analyse these variations to predict where oil, gas and minerals are most likely to be found underground. Very large structures such as mountain ranges and ocean basins can lead to variations of up to 0.05%. Variations due to rock structures related to oil (e.g. salt domes) and metal ore bodies are very small, but can be measured as anomalies (unexplained local highs or lows) that occur within small geographical areas.

Go here for further insight. Its a wonder that anyone hits anything..:)

BBC News | SCI/TECH | New gravity map released


Doggone! Is Gerald Perry going to account for this in Exbal!?

Something else to pin my bad shooting on...:D
 
Well it's pretty clear that big game hunting seasons must now be closed all across the country. We're down to analyzing the density of the earth's crust in order to refine our ballistics programs. :D
 
Well it's pretty clear that big game hunting seasons must now be closed all across the country. We're down to analyzing the density of the earth's crust in order to refine our ballistics programs. :D

I dont know about everybody else but up here at home, its dark and cold with nothing to hunt. Ahhhhh yes, this is why I am tied to the computer!!!!!!!!!!

Although I have been making it to the range several times a week! There is only so many daylight hours though.

I think I will go fix me a drink!

Regards!
 
Pardon me if this has been commented on already. I have one area i shoot in fairly regularly, usually on the weekends, about the same time of day. The wind patterns are fairly consistent to the point that i can usually estimate the wind almost exactly every time. He is only adjusted 1 1/2moa. He is trying for a 'zero' at 1000yds, could it not be just a simple matter of wind? That would account for the consistency between two rifles if he is shooting at the same times of day and at the same location would it not? (i enjoy a spirited discussion of the coriolis effect as much as the next guy :)) If you are zero left to right at 100yds and zero left to right at 300yds the only thing that can push the bullet off course is wind (unless your at extreme ranges). I would suggest shooting at a different location, during different times of day, and at different ranges keeping your 100 and 300yd zero. If your bullet is all over the place then its wind.
 
MuleHunter,

Welcome to the LRH forum!

I only shot 990 yds on windless - dead calm - days. The last time I shot 990 yds there was a bit of snow falling and the snow was falling directly vertical from my shooting location all the way down to the target. Wind was strictly eliminated as a factor with my bullet drift on all of my 990 yd shooting outings.

phorwath
 
phorwath,

To the best of my recollection no one has measured the affect of varying amounts of snow or for that matter, rain pertaining to bullet trajectory. Generally the effect is considered zero. Wanna work on that one?:)

Meichele,

Maybe you could do a study on the affects of light on POI (another recent thread).

You could shoot during light then shoot during dark, then rig up some shadows at several distances out to 1K.

The impact on the trajectory based on bullet impact of shadows could be conducted. BTW, does a shadow have mass or is it a lack of mass? Hmmmmm:rolleyes:
 
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