Has anyone been using these bullets? I'm using the 150gr .308. Seems to shoot ok. The first load shot 1.15" in my 300RUM sendero at 100. Some further load development will hopefully by less thean half of that. By the way, max load of RL 25 yeilds 3800 fps. The way I understand this is the bullet is an undersized Barnes tsx 150 undersized and then recoated with np3. Kinda hard on barrels. I'll mess with the overall length and post results.
Lazzeroni Lazerhead
- Thread starter esorensen
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Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Esorensen,
First off welcome to LRH!!!
Personally I would highly recommend you save your money and just use the Barnes TSX bullets. I am not a fan of Barnes bullets but from the results my customers are getting out of the rifles I build them using the TSX bullet, it seems Barnes as corrected many of the issues that the standard X bullet has.
They are shooting very well, they do not have the extreme pressure issues that the standard X has, bore fouling is very limited and velocity is on par with conventional bullets using conventional bullet weight load data.
Again, save your money, the TSX will serve you just as well and cost 1/2 the price.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
First off welcome to LRH!!!
Personally I would highly recommend you save your money and just use the Barnes TSX bullets. I am not a fan of Barnes bullets but from the results my customers are getting out of the rifles I build them using the TSX bullet, it seems Barnes as corrected many of the issues that the standard X bullet has.
They are shooting very well, they do not have the extreme pressure issues that the standard X has, bore fouling is very limited and velocity is on par with conventional bullets using conventional bullet weight load data.
Again, save your money, the TSX will serve you just as well and cost 1/2 the price.
Good Shooting!!
Kirby Allen(50)
Thank you for the welcome. I enjoy the company of like minded individuals. One benefit of the NP3 little cleaning of the bore as there is almost no Cu fouling. I'm also told that there is a velocity increase as well as pressure decrease.(At the expense of barrel wear.) My initial goal was to emulate some of the custom 30-378's back in the 90's using the ox-150 from barnes/robar/arizona ammunition. Velocities with these bullets were about 4100 fps.I cant vouch for the accuracy but the killing power at distance is phenmominal. I haven't developed a load accurate enough for my tastes yet, and hunting season isn't here. I'll let you all know how it goes...thanks.
esorensen,
Please forgive me in advance for getting a little worked up over this topic but I have seen too many of my friends go down this same road, Lazzeroni has filled people's mind's with propaganda ******** that 150gr bullets out of a 30cal at 4000fps is the way to go ,it is NOT!!!!! let me give you an example ( my friend's father is retired and does nothing but hunt ,he has a Lazzeroni warbird a 300UM and a 338UM) this gentleman went on a bear hunt 4 years ago in alaska and used his warbird at mach 4 and shot an Alaskan Brownie 3 times and watched it run back into the bush never to be found. He was so upset that he has still never shot this gun again to this day.
He gave me his 300UM and told me to make it shoot and the only bullet he would consider was the 180gr Scirocco (arter learning his lesson with the lazerhead) after 3 times back to Christensen Arms to have them fix what should not have left there shop in the first place I got this to shoot in the 3's and this fellow shot a few deer and an elk at long range with this gun, then he had another bear hunt in Alaska and he wanted me to load him up some more 180gr Scirocco's, I argued with him why dont you let me load you up some 200gr Accubonds or better yet some 225 Accubonds for your 338UM but NO his mind was set. Guess what he had the same result 4shots in a brownie and it wandered off. Last year he listened to me 338UM 225gr Accubond one shot one Alaskan Brown bear.
IMHO if you use a 150gr bullet in the size of a Lazzeroni or Ultramag it is a varmint gun not a big game gun use a 180gr 200gr or bigger, if you are dead set on 150's use a 308win.
B
Please forgive me in advance for getting a little worked up over this topic but I have seen too many of my friends go down this same road, Lazzeroni has filled people's mind's with propaganda ******** that 150gr bullets out of a 30cal at 4000fps is the way to go ,it is NOT!!!!! let me give you an example ( my friend's father is retired and does nothing but hunt ,he has a Lazzeroni warbird a 300UM and a 338UM) this gentleman went on a bear hunt 4 years ago in alaska and used his warbird at mach 4 and shot an Alaskan Brownie 3 times and watched it run back into the bush never to be found. He was so upset that he has still never shot this gun again to this day.
He gave me his 300UM and told me to make it shoot and the only bullet he would consider was the 180gr Scirocco (arter learning his lesson with the lazerhead) after 3 times back to Christensen Arms to have them fix what should not have left there shop in the first place I got this to shoot in the 3's and this fellow shot a few deer and an elk at long range with this gun, then he had another bear hunt in Alaska and he wanted me to load him up some more 180gr Scirocco's, I argued with him why dont you let me load you up some 200gr Accubonds or better yet some 225 Accubonds for your 338UM but NO his mind was set. Guess what he had the same result 4shots in a brownie and it wandered off. Last year he listened to me 338UM 225gr Accubond one shot one Alaskan Brown bear.
IMHO if you use a 150gr bullet in the size of a Lazzeroni or Ultramag it is a varmint gun not a big game gun use a 180gr 200gr or bigger, if you are dead set on 150's use a 308win.
B
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I would have to agree with Brian B on this one, but a bit less passionately /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!
It all depends on what you call long range shooting. If your shooting out to 500 yards, go for it, yes the lighter bullets will be flatter shooting but if your talking about 600 and out where most of the guys on this post play, there is no way the light fast bullets will compare in all areas with a good high bc heavy bullet.
I personally feel the RUM case capacity is at its best with 200 gr bullets. This will result in velocity of around 3200 fps which is by no means sexy!!!
But liken it to cars. Your high velocity 150 gr load is like a little Carmero with a 600 hp big block in it. Tons of instant performance but is one squirrely critter to drive.
Take a much heavier Chevelle and drop a 500 hp big block in it and it is smooth as butter to drive and handle.
The point being, ultra high velocity loads look real good on paper out to even 500 yards. Trajectory is lazer flat and they seem to zap the life right out of game animals.
The heavy bullets are not near as flashy but they produce much more consistant loads which generally greatly improves performance at long to extreme range.
I would not fall to hard into the sales pitches for the high tech bullet coatings. Unless your shooting a Lazz rifle with their very slow twist you will not reach the velocities they say you should.
The Lazzeroni craze has really dies off over the last few years. Mainly because the factory WSM, RUM and big WBY offer at least as much if not more in a much more cost effective package.
Just my opinion,
Kirby Allen(50)
It all depends on what you call long range shooting. If your shooting out to 500 yards, go for it, yes the lighter bullets will be flatter shooting but if your talking about 600 and out where most of the guys on this post play, there is no way the light fast bullets will compare in all areas with a good high bc heavy bullet.
I personally feel the RUM case capacity is at its best with 200 gr bullets. This will result in velocity of around 3200 fps which is by no means sexy!!!
But liken it to cars. Your high velocity 150 gr load is like a little Carmero with a 600 hp big block in it. Tons of instant performance but is one squirrely critter to drive.
Take a much heavier Chevelle and drop a 500 hp big block in it and it is smooth as butter to drive and handle.
The point being, ultra high velocity loads look real good on paper out to even 500 yards. Trajectory is lazer flat and they seem to zap the life right out of game animals.
The heavy bullets are not near as flashy but they produce much more consistant loads which generally greatly improves performance at long to extreme range.
I would not fall to hard into the sales pitches for the high tech bullet coatings. Unless your shooting a Lazz rifle with their very slow twist you will not reach the velocities they say you should.
The Lazzeroni craze has really dies off over the last few years. Mainly because the factory WSM, RUM and big WBY offer at least as much if not more in a much more cost effective package.
Just my opinion,
Kirby Allen(50)
B I didn't mean to get you worked up about the bullet issue. The Lazerhead is a Barnes TSX. I have never shot anything with a Barnes bullet, however I hear that they function quite well despite their homogeneous idiosyncracies. I have a friend of mine that used the old 30-378 with the ox-150 (lazerhead forerunner) that killed 2 cow elk at about 400 yards with results he had never seen in 30+ years of hunting and 40+ elk kills. These cows were both hit broadside lung shots and both never took a second step. I could go into more detail later if you want. My whole point of this exercise was to possibly create an economy version of the 30-378 and ox-150 combo. I'm quite confident that when this load is tuned, anything from coyotes to cow elk are done with point and shoot out to about 400 with little to no hold. That was the objective. I have shot the 180 swift scirrocco and liked them except for the Cu fouling. I have some 180 accubonds and will be loading them soon as well. I don't want to start any wars, but I am quite tempted to try some 165 LRB or wildcats. I have heard quite a bit of controversy surrounding the LRB bullets, they just appear to require a bit more tuning. I do appreciate everyones input. thanks
esorensen,
did not mean to offend but you did not get my point, yes 150's and 165's out of a 300RUM will make spectacular kills but they can also make spectacular disappointments, the point that I was trying to make is that using 180-200grainer's in a case the size of a 300RUM will yeild more dead animals (not wounded).
B.
did not mean to offend but you did not get my point, yes 150's and 165's out of a 300RUM will make spectacular kills but they can also make spectacular disappointments, the point that I was trying to make is that using 180-200grainer's in a case the size of a 300RUM will yeild more dead animals (not wounded).
B.
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
I must also back up what fiftydriver and Brian B said.
Velocity kills, yes.
But, high bc kills farther out. Period. End of discussion.
Take it from a few fellows who walk the walk and have been shooting big game animals around the 1/2 mile mark for some time now, high bc is exponentially better than high velo.
The 30-378 shooting anything less than a 200 grain bullet is like having Roger CLemens throw his best fastball to see how fast it can streak past a batter, but not with a baseball, but with a wiffle ball. It might start out fast but it aint gonna be going too fast once it gets to the plate-if it even makes it there at all! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Velocity kills, yes.
But, high bc kills farther out. Period. End of discussion.
Take it from a few fellows who walk the walk and have been shooting big game animals around the 1/2 mile mark for some time now, high bc is exponentially better than high velo.
The 30-378 shooting anything less than a 200 grain bullet is like having Roger CLemens throw his best fastball to see how fast it can streak past a batter, but not with a baseball, but with a wiffle ball. It might start out fast but it aint gonna be going too fast once it gets to the plate-if it even makes it there at all! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Jon A
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Velocity kills, yes.
But, high bc kills farther out. Period. End of discussion.
Take it from a few fellows who walk the walk and have been shooting big game animals around the 1/2 mile mark for some time now, high bc is exponentially better than high velo.
The 30-378 shooting anything less than a 200 grain bullet is like having Roger CLemens throw his best fastball to see how fast it can streak past a batter, but not with a baseball, but with a wiffle ball. It might start out fast but it aint gonna be going too fast once it gets to the plate-if it even makes it there at all! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Very well said. If I could have one wish, it would be that everybody on "other" forums was forced to read this until his eyes bled. Then read it some more. Then do real world testing to see that it is true. Then read it one more time.
Well, OK, if I only had one wish that probably wouldn't be it--but it'd be right near the top!
Velocity kills, yes.
But, high bc kills farther out. Period. End of discussion.
Take it from a few fellows who walk the walk and have been shooting big game animals around the 1/2 mile mark for some time now, high bc is exponentially better than high velo.
The 30-378 shooting anything less than a 200 grain bullet is like having Roger CLemens throw his best fastball to see how fast it can streak past a batter, but not with a baseball, but with a wiffle ball. It might start out fast but it aint gonna be going too fast once it gets to the plate-if it even makes it there at all! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Very well said. If I could have one wish, it would be that everybody on "other" forums was forced to read this until his eyes bled. Then read it some more. Then do real world testing to see that it is true. Then read it one more time.
Well, OK, if I only had one wish that probably wouldn't be it--but it'd be right near the top!
G
Guest
Guest
I'll take it one step further. Heavy bullets are better a close range too!
The guy that shot the Brown Bear in Alaska with the 150gr bullet was insane to begin with, but where was the guide?
Why did the guide let him use that bullet? If I were guiding in Alaska for Grizz, I'd require a minimum of 338 with a 225 bullet. And a good hunting bullet at that. I'm a matchking and cauterucio fan like most others at this site. But for Grizz I'm using Barnes, or nosler, or something else with killing power. I dont care if I'm shooting 2" at 100 yards. I'm not shooting a grizz past 200 anyway. Probably under 100. Most bear attacks occur with woulded bears that are being tracked or while tracking another wounded animal such as a moose. Or even while gutting the animal like the elk hunter in Montana that was attacked by a grizz while field dressing his elk. Point is, drop that grizz as fast as possible before he gets into the thick (and dangerous) stuff!
Now if I'm doing a moose/bear combo. The 300 matchkings will be there! (for the moose!!)
The guy that shot the Brown Bear in Alaska with the 150gr bullet was insane to begin with, but where was the guide?
Why did the guide let him use that bullet? If I were guiding in Alaska for Grizz, I'd require a minimum of 338 with a 225 bullet. And a good hunting bullet at that. I'm a matchking and cauterucio fan like most others at this site. But for Grizz I'm using Barnes, or nosler, or something else with killing power. I dont care if I'm shooting 2" at 100 yards. I'm not shooting a grizz past 200 anyway. Probably under 100. Most bear attacks occur with woulded bears that are being tracked or while tracking another wounded animal such as a moose. Or even while gutting the animal like the elk hunter in Montana that was attacked by a grizz while field dressing his elk. Point is, drop that grizz as fast as possible before he gets into the thick (and dangerous) stuff!
Now if I'm doing a moose/bear combo. The 300 matchkings will be there! (for the moose!!)
I'm not so sure the fellow who used to 150 gr. for brownies was very educated in his decision. Worst case scenario for self defense, but intentionally? So, now my interest is piqued for heavier bullets. I've heard the 200 gr. accubonds are popular. What of the wildcats? Is there a point of diminishing returns for the 300rum cartridge? I've tried to do some research on the "best all around load" for this gun and my uses for it. I found the lost river 165 gr. with its bc of .672 and an mv of @3500 to be quite seductive. Would this not be an appropriate combo? I've gotten the impression that you either love or hate the lrb bullets. Comments? I'm still quite new to this, but the way I understand it is E=1/2MxV (squared). Anytime you increase velocity by a small increment, the energy goes up exponentially; right? That is what got me interested in the overbore arena in the first place. So fast tough bullets with a high bc are good, right? I would appreciate any and all comments so I may learn form others who are better versed on the subject than myself. Thank you for all of the wonderful information and stories I've read on this site. You all sound like great people.
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Not to lecture you, but I have already been down the road you are taking. Skip the light bullets. Go straight to 180 and above.
No it's not as flat or as sexy but the bottom line is it is more effective for long range work. The drop is the easy part, the wind is what you need to worry about and the heavier bullets will buck it a whole lot better. The higher BCs will result in the heavier to overtaking the lighter in velocity somewhere around 600 yds and they will carry much more energy downrange.
The ES will also be alot less on the heavier bullets, resulting in less verticle stringing @ extreme ranges.
I could have saved alot of money on powder and bullets if I would have just listened to the guys around here.
As far as the lost river's go, if you want to spend $1 a shot for just the bullet, feel free. If you want to get the same performance for much less, contact Richard and get some of his 190 grain or heavier bullets.
Sorry for the rant. Just trying to stop you from making the same mistakes I have.
B.J.
No it's not as flat or as sexy but the bottom line is it is more effective for long range work. The drop is the easy part, the wind is what you need to worry about and the heavier bullets will buck it a whole lot better. The higher BCs will result in the heavier to overtaking the lighter in velocity somewhere around 600 yds and they will carry much more energy downrange.
The ES will also be alot less on the heavier bullets, resulting in less verticle stringing @ extreme ranges.
I could have saved alot of money on powder and bullets if I would have just listened to the guys around here.
As far as the lost river's go, if you want to spend $1 a shot for just the bullet, feel free. If you want to get the same performance for much less, contact Richard and get some of his 190 grain or heavier bullets.
Sorry for the rant. Just trying to stop you from making the same mistakes I have.
B.J.
Thank you so much for the responses. Money is as tight here to and I see no reason to try and duplicate previous work that has not yeilded better than expected results. I assume to richard you are referring to is of wildcat bullets? If so, what are the bc's of his 190's and price? Do you have nay good loads? Thanks, ES
bailey1474
<strong>SPONSOR</strong>
Yes, it is Richard of Wildcat bullets. I don't know the bc on the 190s but I have shot some of his 169.5s. Got decent results but just could not seat them out far enough and have enough bullet in the case for me to feel good about it. After many hours of shooting and deliberation I have decided this bullet is just too lite for the big 300 RUM case.
I have some of the 190s but have not tested them. I'll let you know when I get around to it. I also hope to test some of the 210s in the near future.
Give Richard a call or email. He'll shoot you straight and tell you what would be best for your applications. I wish I would have listened to him the first I talked to him and recomended the 190 or above.
B.J.
I have some of the 190s but have not tested them. I'll let you know when I get around to it. I also hope to test some of the 210s in the near future.
Give Richard a call or email. He'll shoot you straight and tell you what would be best for your applications. I wish I would have listened to him the first I talked to him and recomended the 190 or above.
B.J.
