Is Varget hard on Barrels
- Thread starter dryfarmer
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
There is ancedotal evidence that some high energy powders in overbore capacity cases will cause shortened barrel life. But Varget is not one of those. I use it exclusively on one of my 6mmBR rifles with a Bartlien competition barrel. Over 1300 rounds so far, and I have not had to chase the lands yet. That load in a 22-250 will not eat the barrel until you get up above 2500 rounds.
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"I think I read somewhere that Varget was hard on barrels."
Read it somewhere... yeah, it seems to be going 'round. Guess another wanna be expert has started another web legend.
You will break his heart, but fuggit about it.
Read it somewhere... yeah, it seems to be going 'round. Guess another wanna be expert has started another web legend.
You will break his heart, but fuggit about it.
Personally I think verget is about the best powder ou can get for a 308 with mid weight bullets and that it is not hard on barrels. I do however know of one circumstance where a 6x47 shooting varget was toast in less than 500 rounds. I usually get four to five times that round count using high energy powders. Then again I know a PD shooter that gets good service out of varget in the 22/250
boomtube
Well-Known Member
It's heat that errodes barrels and rapid shooting produces a LOT of heat. I'm sure there are some variables in powders but they are so small as to be virtually meaningless if the user allows his barrel to cool between shots.
' heat that errodes barrels and rapid shooting produces a LOT of heat"
This statement begs the question of what is too much heat,something that I am aware of but don"t know the definition of, when shooting I check the barrel warmth by grabbing it my hand yes it is warm but not uncomfortable to hold, is that acceptable heat?
This statement begs the question of what is too much heat,something that I am aware of but don"t know the definition of, when shooting I check the barrel warmth by grabbing it my hand yes it is warm but not uncomfortable to hold, is that acceptable heat?
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"I check the barrel warmth by grabbing it my hand yes it is warm but not uncomfortable to hold, is that acceptable heat? "
Dry, that's sorta up to the user but I use the "cool enough to hold test" for myself.
Thing is, a barrel will eventually burn out no matter how we do it. If we continue to shoot it while blistering hot we may burn a barrel out in a thousand rounds or less. But IF we allow it to cool to ambient temp, the same barrel may give gilt accuracy for three-four thousand rounds. Barrels are replacable tools so I actually shoot as conditions allow for what I need, or want, to do. Rarely do I need to hurry.
I've never fired more than three quick shots at game and that only once, most are one shot, a few have been two. And that includes my varmint hunting now that I think of it, but I don't hunt for pararie poddles. There is no (normal) justification for a hunter to shoot a hot barrel and hot barrels degrade accuracy anyway.
Match competitors have different needs for timed and rapid fire; they know it's gonna cost 'em replacement barrels. Even then the difference in barrel life due the powder is marginal and fades into insignificance compared to the accuacy of any such choice. Competitors are gonna pick what shoots best and use it until they need a new barrel, whenever that is!
Dry, that's sorta up to the user but I use the "cool enough to hold test" for myself.
Thing is, a barrel will eventually burn out no matter how we do it. If we continue to shoot it while blistering hot we may burn a barrel out in a thousand rounds or less. But IF we allow it to cool to ambient temp, the same barrel may give gilt accuracy for three-four thousand rounds. Barrels are replacable tools so I actually shoot as conditions allow for what I need, or want, to do. Rarely do I need to hurry.
I've never fired more than three quick shots at game and that only once, most are one shot, a few have been two. And that includes my varmint hunting now that I think of it, but I don't hunt for pararie poddles. There is no (normal) justification for a hunter to shoot a hot barrel and hot barrels degrade accuracy anyway.
Match competitors have different needs for timed and rapid fire; they know it's gonna cost 'em replacement barrels. Even then the difference in barrel life due the powder is marginal and fades into insignificance compared to the accuacy of any such choice. Competitors are gonna pick what shoots best and use it until they need a new barrel, whenever that is!
Heat kills, my gunsmith was willing to take a chance on a barrel trying to win the Texas Mid-Range rifle Championships on a very windy weekend. He thought his custom 6.5 x 284 would give him an advantage. With 2-spooters then 20 rounds at 300, 500 and 600 yards on two days he killed his barrel. He shot maybe 50 more rounds before he had to set the barrel back. I don't want to start a feud but I used to always shoot moly coated bullets and have gone to Boran coated bullets from Superor Shooting Systems and have not replaced a barrel since. I shoot alot and that coating increases my muzzle velocities and cuts down on barrel heating. Depending on the caliber and barrel diameter I can usually get twice the number of rounds fired with the same barrel temp over naked bullets. If friction causes heat and you cut the heat in half it sure seems the barrel would last longer. My gunsmith says the barrel wearout or accuracy loss is usually the throat. I use the TMS ( Throat Maintenence System ) from Superior Shooting Systems. All that stuff was developed by David Tubbs, look at his bio someday it's impressive to say the least. I guess when he neared retirement he started selling his secrets.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
This is just foolish...
It is so common that hotter powders in overbore capacities shorten barrel life that it cannot be denied by anyone today. Varget is Hodgdon's hottest rifle powder, and a 22-250 ain't exactly underbore.. It holds more powder than a 6br, and it's bore is smaller. What do you think the results of this are?
As mentioned, heat is the big factor here. Well heat is energy, and different powders release different energy per mass. They also release the energy over a different area within a given bore diameter. If the bore is smaller, or powder is faster/pressure is higher, that energy is applied to a smaller area. If you don't allow that energy to travel away from that area before re-applying more, your barrel will suffer the consequences of this. Oh, and while you're doing this, the barrel seems cool overall -because you haven't let the heat travel away from it's offending point.. USE A TIMER
A friend of mine recently shot out a 25-06 before he was through with it, because he laid down 3sht groups with it constantly(fantastic groups). He never thought he was hurting the bore because at his 3sht limit he could wipe the back of his hand down the barrel without burning. So he got his best groups shooting fast from a warmed up barrel, that he didn't allow to get 'too warm'.
Well now he can get to the back of a few lines and hope to finish another barrel that shoots as well as that one had, with a new load that he'll have to find.
This was a nice hunting gun with ~1000rnds, and he could have used it for 5 lifetimes if he had let it cool a minute between shots.
Barrel life goes;
1. shot timing
2. powder amount per bore area
3. powder heat
4. pressure
5. carbon constriction
Barrels don't ever, ever wear out from bullet friction..
The only coating I'm aware of known to 'potentially' increase barrel life, is moly. This, only because it reduces flame HEAT as it vaporizes. It also extends the bore area remaining heat is applied to. But as most folks have come to realize, moly can also reduce barrel life, if not removed consistently enough to prevent a moly ring from forming.
This is similar to the ultimate killer of barrels, #5
Last edited:
Interesting read from accurateshooter.com - -
November 23rd, 2010
Gone in Six Seconds — The Shocking Truth of Barrel Life
Here's a little known fact that may startle most readers, even experienced gunsmiths: your barrel wears out in a matter of seconds. The useful life of a typical match barrel, in terms of actual bullet-in-barrel time, is only a few seconds. How can that be, you ask? Well you need to look at the actual time that bullets spend traveling through the bore during the barrel's useful life. (Hint: it's not very long).
Bullet-Time-in-Barrel Calculations
If a bullet flies at 3000 fps, it will pass through a 24″ (two-foot) barrel in 1/1500th of a second. If you have a useful barrel life of 3000 rounds, that would translate to just two seconds of actual bullet-in-barrel operating time.
Ah, but it's not that simple. Your bullet starts at zero velocity and then accelerates as it passes through the bore, so the projectile's average velocity is not the same as the 3000 fps muzzle velocity. So how long does a centerfire bullet (with 3000 fps MV) typically stay in the bore? The answer is about .002 seconds. This number was calculated by Varmint Al, who is a really smart engineer dude who worked at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, a government think tank that develops neutron bombs, fusion reactors and other simple stuff.
On his Barrel Tuner page, Varmint Al figured out that the amount of time a bullet spends in a barrel during firing is under .002 seconds. Al writes: "The approximate time that it takes a 3300 fps muzzle velocity bullet to exit the barrel, assuming a constant acceleration, is 0.0011 seconds. Actual exit times would be longer since the bullet is not under constant acceleration."
We'll use the .002 number for our calculations here, knowing that the exact number depends on barrel length and muzzle velocity. But .002 is a good average that errs, if anything, on the side of more barrel operating life rather than less.
So, if a bullet spends .002 seconds in the barrel during each shot, and you get 3000 rounds of accurate barrel life, how much actual firing time does the barrel deliver before it loses accuracy? That's simple math: 3000 x .002 seconds = 6 seconds.
Gone in Six Seconds. Want to Cry Now?
Six seconds. That's how long your barrel actually functions (in terms of bullet-in-barrel shot time) before it "goes south." Yes, we know some barrels last longer than 3000 rounds. On the other hand, plenty of .243 Win and 6.5-284 barrels lose accuracy in 1500 rounds or less. If your barrel loses accuracy at the 1500-round mark, then it only worked for three seconds! Of course, if you are shooting a "long-lived" .308 Win that goes 5000 rounds before losing accuracy, then you get a whopping TEN seconds of barrel life. Anyway you look at it, a rifle barrel has very little longevity, when you consider actual firing time.
People already lament the high cost of replacing barrels. Now that you know how short-lived barrels really are, you can complain even louder. Of course our analysis does give you even more of an excuse to buy a nice new Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen etc. barrel for that fine rifle of yours.
» November 23rd, 2010
November 23rd, 2010
Gone in Six Seconds — The Shocking Truth of Barrel Life
Here's a little known fact that may startle most readers, even experienced gunsmiths: your barrel wears out in a matter of seconds. The useful life of a typical match barrel, in terms of actual bullet-in-barrel time, is only a few seconds. How can that be, you ask? Well you need to look at the actual time that bullets spend traveling through the bore during the barrel's useful life. (Hint: it's not very long).
Bullet-Time-in-Barrel Calculations
If a bullet flies at 3000 fps, it will pass through a 24″ (two-foot) barrel in 1/1500th of a second. If you have a useful barrel life of 3000 rounds, that would translate to just two seconds of actual bullet-in-barrel operating time.
Ah, but it's not that simple. Your bullet starts at zero velocity and then accelerates as it passes through the bore, so the projectile's average velocity is not the same as the 3000 fps muzzle velocity. So how long does a centerfire bullet (with 3000 fps MV) typically stay in the bore? The answer is about .002 seconds. This number was calculated by Varmint Al, who is a really smart engineer dude who worked at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, a government think tank that develops neutron bombs, fusion reactors and other simple stuff.
On his Barrel Tuner page, Varmint Al figured out that the amount of time a bullet spends in a barrel during firing is under .002 seconds. Al writes: "The approximate time that it takes a 3300 fps muzzle velocity bullet to exit the barrel, assuming a constant acceleration, is 0.0011 seconds. Actual exit times would be longer since the bullet is not under constant acceleration."
We'll use the .002 number for our calculations here, knowing that the exact number depends on barrel length and muzzle velocity. But .002 is a good average that errs, if anything, on the side of more barrel operating life rather than less.
So, if a bullet spends .002 seconds in the barrel during each shot, and you get 3000 rounds of accurate barrel life, how much actual firing time does the barrel deliver before it loses accuracy? That's simple math: 3000 x .002 seconds = 6 seconds.
Gone in Six Seconds. Want to Cry Now?
Six seconds. That's how long your barrel actually functions (in terms of bullet-in-barrel shot time) before it "goes south." Yes, we know some barrels last longer than 3000 rounds. On the other hand, plenty of .243 Win and 6.5-284 barrels lose accuracy in 1500 rounds or less. If your barrel loses accuracy at the 1500-round mark, then it only worked for three seconds! Of course, if you are shooting a "long-lived" .308 Win that goes 5000 rounds before losing accuracy, then you get a whopping TEN seconds of barrel life. Anyway you look at it, a rifle barrel has very little longevity, when you consider actual firing time.
People already lament the high cost of replacing barrels. Now that you know how short-lived barrels really are, you can complain even louder. Of course our analysis does give you even more of an excuse to buy a nice new Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen etc. barrel for that fine rifle of yours.
» November 23rd, 2010
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Well there's one from the ShootingTabloid.com..........
I like the site. But it's frequently obvious that they make it up as they go over there.
I agree with those that declared that pamphlet as meaningless, and boring.
I like the site. But it's frequently obvious that they make it up as they go over there.
I agree with those that declared that pamphlet as meaningless, and boring.
