Is it possible to damage or affect the accuracy of a barrel by black nitriding it?

[bigngreen]

bigngreen,
Who would you recommend to do a quality Cerakoting job? And can the barreled action be done in one piece or do they need to be separate as you mentioned previously?

I don't really know any other applicators so not really a good source for that, I'm not doing it anymore. You can Cerakote in one piece as long as the smith didnt grease the snot out of the tenon other wise you have to remove the barrel clean it and reassemble it so it doesn't leak grease out.
I would buy Nitrided actions all day long, I don't think I'll ever do another barrel though.

 

[shortgrass]

SS can be blued , but it takes the proper bluing solution. Du-Lite makes the 'salts'. You might call them and ask who they sell those to so you could just have the barrel blued if you're worried about Blk. Nitriding.

 

[Rick Richard]

bigngreen,
Who would you recommend to do a quality Cerakoting job? And can the barreled action be done in one piece or do they need to be separate as you mentioned previously?

Snake River Ceracoting. Lots of gunsmiths use their service. Look them up on the web.

 

[Brett Bracken]

I really appreciate the comments gentlemen... and Happy New Years! I hope that 2020 is a profitable and blessed year for y'all.

 

[mcdil]

Depending on the steel used, if the nitriding temp falls within the tempering zone (and it usually does), the metallurgy will be negatively affected and the microstructure altered. I'm not aware of any SS tool steels used for actions or barrels, but if one were, many of the heat treatment processes line up perfectly for a plasma nitriding treatment, and one of the tempering processes, the last one, can be the nitriding process at the same time. This would create an amazingly good piece of metal, albeit very expensive. It would be great if nitriding for firearms had better options out there in general. Seems like finding hen's teeth.

 

[L.Sherm]

O.P I can tell you that I've seen nitride open up the bore on a batch of SS barrels about 75% of them. I measured them with a deltronic pin before they were nitrided and when they came back about 75% were .0003 bigger. I never did see that on a CM barrel though.
It was with only one company so I cant say if it was just there process or not.
Just seems like a crap shoot to me.

 

[Mram10us]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

Another example of misinformation. Not blaming you, but unfortunately it is steering you away from a great product. I've cerakoted over 100 rifles and can tell you that when done correctly, it isn't sticky, thick or requiring of high heat. I've played with the 300 for an hour and the 200 for 2 hours. I haven't seen a difference, but haven't done a real scientific test. Just talked to cerakote(nis) the other day asking the best way to get cerakote out of serial numbers on actions, he laughed and said 100 grit at 80psi. That is tough stuff Best of luck whichever route you go. It will look great either way.

btw, oil and grease should never be an issue if you prep it correctly. Soaking in acetone, heating(gassing) for a couple hours, then cleaning with acetone again prior to spray takes the hate out of it.

 

[moa_shooter]

Cerakote will give you a nice matte black when using armor black, I match nitrided actions all the time and you can't tell the difference between the two. IF Cerakote is done right it adds .0005 to .001 which on any factory gun makes them run way better. There are a couple custom actions that are tight like a Borden and you can Cerakote the action but leave the center body of the bolt and it'll run good.
Many of the sticky issues are due to running with a bunch of oil or grease, Cerakote runs excellent dry on it's self cause that's what it's made to do OR the applicator uses air cure and does not allow the time to fully cure.
Cerakote is baked at 300 degrees for an hour or 200 degrees for 2 horus, nitride is done at 900-1100 depending on the company doing the process.

its 250 degrees for 2 hours

 

[Mram10us]

its 250 degrees for 2 hours

True, but it will cure at 150 for 2 hours for anything temp sensitive

 

[dfanonymous]

True, but it will cure at 150 for 2 hours for anything temp sensitive

You ever use the air cure cerakote? I'm talking about https://www.cerakote.com/finishes/?tab=coatings&cat=CSERIES
not just trying to air cure the oven series cerakote

 

[bigngreen]

Another example of misinformation. Not blaming you, but unfortunately it is steering you away from a great product. I've cerakoted over 100 rifles and can tell you that when done correctly, it isn't sticky, thick or requiring of high heat. I've played with the 300 for an hour and the 200 for 2 hours. I haven't seen a difference, but haven't done a real scientific test. Just talked to cerakote(nis) the other day asking the best way to get cerakote out of serial numbers on actions, he laughed and said 100 grit at 80psi. That is tough stuff Best of luck whichever route you go. It will look great either way.

btw, oil and grease should never be an issue if you prep it correctly. Soaking in acetone, heating(gassing) for a couple hours, then cleaning with acetone again prior to spray takes the hate out of it.

Fill the lettering with a brittle epoxy then do your normal process and application then with a dental pick the epoxy pops out of the lettering leaving a nice brite lettering.

I used to do a lot of Cerakote for other smiths and there is some greases you just can't get out and will leach for days of heating and acetone.

 

[Mram10us]

You ever use the air cure cerakote? I'm talking about https://www.cerakote.com/finishes/?tab=coatings&cat=CSERIES
not just trying to air cure the oven series cerakote

No sir. Tried polane, duracoat and now just cerakote.
Love to see your results

 

[Mram10us]

Fill the lettering with a brittle epoxy then do your normal process and application then with a dental pick the epoxy pops out of the lettering leaving a nice brite lettering.

I used to do a lot of Cerakote for other smiths and there is some greases you just can't get out and will leach for days of heating and acetone.

Thanks for the tip on the serial numbers. I guess I've been lucky with the greases. Mine were all builds with a bit of anti-seize is all, so that might be why.

 

[bigngreen]

Ya never seize is easy, one guy I did it for used as particular grease I could not get it cerakoted properly in a timely manner with a barrel installed and if I did eventually get it when he removed barrels later for replacement there was no grease left and created an issue with trying to get the barrels of.