Is It OK to Neck Size Only??

[Ingwe]

Is it OK to only Neck Size cases if you are using the cases for just one rifle??

For example, I Full-Length Size cases for my 7mm Rem Mag. I never shoot the reloads in any other 7mm Rem Mag rifle.....why do I need to FL Size the cases?

Correct me if I am wrong but the cases can only stretch to the size of my chamber.
Can't I just neck size and trim if the neck stretches?

 

[FearNoWind]

Some of the shooters I know will neck size only. After a few cycles they usually find that the cases won't chamber properly and have to be full length resized and trimmed. They claim to achieve more consistent accuracy and longer case life - I'm not convinced. So I don't do it and I don't recommend it.

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2008/07/neck-sizing-vs-full-length-sizing-rifle.html

 

[gohring3006]

As you will probably see you will get about 50% who neck size and 50% who don't. I neck size for less case stretching and the tightest groups I ever shot was with neck sized Federal 30-06 brass, so I never stopped. As for better case life, I'm not sure if its better or not, I usually get loose primer pockets long before any case head separation. My current brass is on its 10th firing. I don't know if the neck sizing is helping this or not....

 

[Greyfox]

I agree with Fearnowind, particularly with hunting loads that are used at the high end of the pressure range. Even though you are using the same chamber, the brass will expand with repeated firings. With most of my hunting rifles I can get 2-3 neck sized reloads before I begin to get a tight bolt and will then full length resize, but this trends to be chamber dependent with the particlar load and rifle. Unless I see a material difference in accuracy, I will FL resize my hunting loads for consistency and reliable feeding. I do NS with some my competition rifles, particularly when I'm reloading large quantities of ammo, tight chambering is less of an issue, and sighters are allowed.

 

[RT2506]

I do what I call as part size cases. I use a FL die but set it up to neck size and just bump the shoulder slightly and I never have problems.

 

[IAHNTR]

My 7 mag cases, norma and win, are on their 4th and 5th firing and I just neck size and have had no chambering issues so far. But I don't have near the experience these other fellas do.

 

[J E Custom]

As some have said, some neck size and others full length size.

There are reasons and benefits to both methods.

+ Side =full length sizing is best if the chamber is not perfect and/or you have a Semi Auto that needs to feed effortlessly.
- side = full length sizing normally shortens case life because it works the brass more.

+ Side to neck sizing = If you have a concentric chamber, neck sizing can produce more consistent
groups and save the brass from over working it. It may also save having to trim as often because of
case growth.
- Side is = it may have to be partially sized if it becomes tight when chambering. (I recommend
sizing only enough to make chambering easy and no more.


I recommend neck sizing if you have a "Perfect" chamber and not relying on your dies to control your accuracy. with well prepared cases and a minimum sizing you should be able to capitalize
on your rifles accuracy.

There are some fine dies available, but nothing sizes your brass as well a good chamber.

So there is no one best way, only the way that best suites your needs and uses.

I personally use all three methods (Neck sizing, partial full length and full length depending on its intended use.


J E CUSTOM

 

[Ingwe]

Thanks for the responses Fellas!

I have a custom Benchmark barrel so I am sure that my chamber is perfect or pretty close.

How about using a body die instead of the partial FL sizing?

 

[Mikecr]

Yes, Redding body die.
Depending on your beginning clearances and load pressure, you may not have a choice but to size the bodies eventually. Depending on the frequency of this cycle, it might be better to FL size -if you can get a hold of a FL die that at least somwhat matches your chamber.

I believe those successful without FL sizing are those who planned for this.
I personally don't FL size anything,, but not because I just stopped doing it one day, and waited to see what would happen.. I always have a plan.

 

[BountyHunter]

Let's get real here, you have just been dealt half the story.

1. First off, there is absolutely no way in hell a perfect chamber resizes anything. If that was the case all resize dies would be made with chamber reamers and that has been proven to be the biggest myth, BS and waste of money known in the internet world. Resize dies are made with resize reamers that are dimensionally smaller to allow the brass to be sized. Run like a scalded dog from anyone who says that a perfect chamber or a die made from your chamber reamer will work. You will still need to resize or eventually throw the brass away.

2. A chamber perfect or not just, fireforms the brass to the chamber dimensions AND THEN the brass springs back. However, due to work hardening from multiple firings at or near max MV in particular, the brass loses the springback and you will get the hard closing, click or hard bolt lift on opening. That is a major reliability issue for a hunter in particular. Only way to fix that is by sizing the body of the brass, either with a FL or body die. Your question is how to do it minimally and easiest with most reliability.

3. MikeCR was right about planning can eliminate some things. However, IF your chamber is already reamed, then the planning is over and out of the question, which is where you are at.

You are left with how to best resize to your chamber and nothing else.

Mike and I both use Redding body dies honed to fit our chambers by Jim Carstenson at JLC precision. Two major differences in us. I have Jim convert the body die to a FL bushing die and I can resize the body minimally and the neck in one operation. For some reason Mike likes it done in two steps. Guess what, when you use a FL bushing die and a body die with NS die of the same dimensions, the brass comes out exactly the same!!! Both methods size the body, the neck and leave the ring at the base of the neck. ALL bushing dies do that except Neil Jones dies who use a different bushing that bumps the shoulder.

4. Your choice involves your threshold for reliability and do you want to load continually well below max for the cartridge. MikeCR loads his 6.5 WSSM to max 55K to avoid FL body sizing because he posted if he goes to 63K which is still below max, he has to FL size every time. He is more concerned about saying he does not FL size than max MV, where as most LR shooters and hunters are pushing MV. That is ok for him, but not for most LR hunters and shooters.

5. Spend a few moments on BR central, 6BR or the Riflemans blog by German Salazar and you will find some things out about myths and reality of top shooters. 98% of most SR shooters FL size every time, and they are pushing max and then some, 95% of the LR BR shooters are FL sizing every time and many are not pushing max MV, all your tactical shooters are FL sizing every time for reliability. Now all of those are normally using dies matched to their chambers by honing or custom to start with. I have seen Dave Tooley wear out two barrels on the same 40 pieces of brass and Tom Sarver (World record at 1k of 1.438 inches) load the same brass 84 times, all with fitted FL bushing dies, so do not buy that arguement of correct FL sizing weakening brass life. Been proven false over and over again.

6. IF you want max brass life, accuracy AND reliability, get a Redding 7mm Mag body die, have it honed to match your existing chamber ($100 and 2 weeks) and converted to a FL bushing and FL size every time. Just google JLC Precision. No decapper ball either on his dies. Those rounds will load every time without being hard, they will be uniform and the brass will last a long time IF you NS only better learn fast how to check all loaded rounds in your chamber to ensure fit BEFORE you go on a hunt or competition. There is a reason everyone where reliability and accuracy matter, do not NS only now.

If you want to plan a chamber to start first, you can build your chamber reamer to closely match an existing die mftrs stock die sets. That certainly is possible. Both Dave Kiff (PTG reamers) and Dave Manson (Manson reamers) supply reamers for die mftrs and can match your chamber with a known die set. I just did this with a custom 6 Dasher chamber reamer and matched John Widdens die set to my chamber on the body sizing to give me minimal sizing and it was an off the shelf die set. All I ended up changing was one dimension .001 to do that.

 

[SabreCross]

I am apart of the camp that only neck sizes for my precision bolt rifles including my 7mm RM.

 

[Ingwe]

Let's get real here, you have just been dealt half the story.

1. First off, there is absolutely no way in hell a perfect chamber resizes anything. If that was the case all resize dies would be made with chamber reamers and that has been proven to be the biggest myth, BS and waste of money known in the internet world. Resize dies are made with resize reamers that are dimensionally smaller to allow the brass to be sized. Run like a scalded dog from anyone who says that a perfect chamber or a die made from your chamber reamer will work. You will still need to resize or eventually throw the brass away.

2. A chamber perfect or not just, fireforms the brass to the chamber dimensions AND THEN the brass springs back. However, due to work hardening from multiple firings at or near max MV in particular, the brass loses the springback and you will get the hard closing, click or hard bolt lift on opening. That is a major reliability issue for a hunter in particular. Only way to fix that is by sizing the body of the brass, either with a FL or body die. Your question is how to do it minimally and easiest with most reliability.

3. MikeCR was right about planning can eliminate some things. However, IF your chamber is already reamed, then the planning is over and out of the question, which is where you are at.

You are left with how to best resize to your chamber and nothing else.

Mike and I both use Redding body dies honed to fit our chambers by Jim Carstenson at JLC precision. Two major differences in us. I have Jim convert the body die to a FL bushing die and I can resize the body minimally and the neck in one operation. For some reason Mike likes it done in two steps. Guess what, when you use a FL bushing die and a body die with NS die of the same dimensions, the brass comes out exactly the same!!! Both methods size the body, the neck and leave the ring at the base of the neck. ALL bushing dies do that except Neil Jones dies who use a different bushing that bumps the shoulder.

4. Your choice involves your threshold for reliability and do you want to load continually well below max for the cartridge. MikeCR loads his 6.5 WSSM to max 55K to avoid FL body sizing because he posted if he goes to 63K which is still below max, he has to FL size every time. He is more concerned about saying he does not FL size than max MV, where as most LR shooters and hunters are pushing MV. That is ok for him, but not for most LR hunters and shooters.

5. Spend a few moments on BR central, 6BR or the Riflemans blog by German Salazar and you will find some things out about myths and reality of top shooters. 98% of most SR shooters FL size every time, and they are pushing max and then some, 95% of the LR BR shooters are FL sizing every time and many are not pushing max MV, all your tactical shooters are FL sizing every time for reliability. Now all of those are normally using dies matched to their chambers by honing or custom to start with. I have seen Dave Tooley wear out two barrels on the same 40 pieces of brass and Tom Sarver (World record at 1k of 1.438 inches) load the same brass 84 times, all with fitted FL bushing dies, so do not buy that arguement of correct FL sizing weakening brass life. Been proven false over and over again.

6. IF you want max brass life, accuracy AND reliability, get a Redding 7mm Mag body die, have it honed to match your existing chamber ($100 and 2 weeks) and converted to a FL bushing and FL size every time. Just google JLC Precision. No decapper ball either on his dies. Those rounds will load every time without being hard, they will be uniform and the brass will last a long time IF you NS only better learn fast how to check all loaded rounds in your chamber to ensure fit BEFORE you go on a hunt or competition. There is a reason everyone where reliability and accuracy matter, do not NS only now.

If you want to plan a chamber to start first, you can build your chamber reamer to closely match an existing die mftrs stock die sets. That certainly is possible. Both Dave Kiff (PTG reamers) and Dave Manson (Manson reamers) supply reamers for die mftrs and can match your chamber with a known die set. I just did this with a custom 6 Dasher chamber reamer and matched John Widdens die set to my chamber on the body sizing to give me minimal sizing and it was an off the shelf die set. All I ended up changing was one dimension .001 to do that.

Wow Bounty Hunter, thanks for that incredible post! A bit above my pay grade however

I am going to look into making a JLC die, since I do already have a Redding NS and Body Die.

Although I DO enjoy reloading my own ammunition, I reload as a means to shoot and hunt.....not for the reloading process in itself, so I would really like to get the die that you are talking about where I can screw the die into my press until it touches the shellholder and load away.

I only load for my 7mmRemMag and my 204 Ruger so I am not worried about the cost of the custom dies.

BTW: do you anneal your brass?? I load my 7mm at max so how many rounds roughly are they good for?

 

[ehryk]

I neck size until bolt closing starts to get snug. After that I use the Redding body die to bump the shoulder back 2 thou. This usually gives me 2 to 3 more firings before I have to do it again. In my .300 WSM, my loads are pretty warm. Primer pockets wear out long before any seperation occurs. In my .308 Win, I use a pretty mild load and get quite a few loads before I have to bump the shoulder with the body die. I anneal every 3 shots so I have never had neck or shoulder splits. Does neck vs FL sizing help brass last longer? I dont know. I do know my ES is much lower in neck sized loads vs FL. It works for me so I stick with it.

 

[J E Custom]

Let's get real here, you have just been dealt half the story.

1. First off, there is absolutely no way in hell a perfect chamber resizes anything. If that was the case all resize dies would be made with chamber reamers and that has been proven to be the biggest myth, BS and waste of money known in the internet world. Resize dies are made with resize reamers that are dimensionally smaller to allow the brass to be sized. Run like a scalded dog from anyone who says that a perfect chamber or a die made from your chamber reamer will work. You will still need to resize or eventually throw the brass away.

2. A chamber perfect or not just, fireforms the brass to the chamber dimensions AND THEN the brass springs back. However, due to work hardening from multiple firings at or near max MV in particular, the brass loses the springback and you will get the hard closing, click or hard bolt lift on opening. That is a major reliability issue for a hunter in particular. Only way to fix that is by sizing the body of the brass, either with a FL or body die. Your question is how to do it minimally and easiest with most reliability.

3. MikeCR was right about planning can eliminate some things. However, IF your chamber is already reamed, then the planning is over and out of the question, which is where you are at.

You are left with how to best resize to your chamber and nothing else.

Mike and I both use Redding body dies honed to fit our chambers by Jim Carstenson at JLC precision. Two major differences in us. I have Jim convert the body die to a FL bushing die and I can resize the body minimally and the neck in one operation. For some reason Mike likes it done in two steps. Guess what, when you use a FL bushing die and a body die with NS die of the same dimensions, the brass comes out exactly the same!!! Both methods size the body, the neck and leave the ring at the base of the neck. ALL bushing dies do that except Neil Jones dies who use a different bushing that bumps the shoulder.

4. Your choice involves your threshold for reliability and do you want to load continually well below max for the cartridge. MikeCR loads his 6.5 WSSM to max 55K to avoid FL body sizing because he posted if he goes to 63K which is still below max, he has to FL size every time. He is more concerned about saying he does not FL size than max MV, where as most LR shooters and hunters are pushing MV. That is ok for him, but not for most LR hunters and shooters.

5. Spend a few moments on BR central, 6BR or the Riflemans blog by German Salazar and you will find some things out about myths and reality of top shooters. 98% of most SR shooters FL size every time, and they are pushing max and then some, 95% of the LR BR shooters are FL sizing every time and many are not pushing max MV, all your tactical shooters are FL sizing every time for reliability. Now all of those are normally using dies matched to their chambers by honing or custom to start with. I have seen Dave Tooley wear out two barrels on the same 40 pieces of brass and Tom Sarver (World record at 1k of 1.438 inches) load the same brass 84 times, all with fitted FL bushing dies, so do not buy that arguement of correct FL sizing weakening brass life. Been proven false over and over again.

6. IF you want max brass life, accuracy AND reliability, get a Redding 7mm Mag body die, have it honed to match your existing chamber ($100 and 2 weeks) and converted to a FL bushing and FL size every time. Just google JLC Precision. No decapper ball either on his dies. Those rounds will load every time without being hard, they will be uniform and the brass will last a long time IF you NS only better learn fast how to check all loaded rounds in your chamber to ensure fit BEFORE you go on a hunt or competition. There is a reason everyone where reliability and accuracy matter, do not NS only now.

If you want to plan a chamber to start first, you can build your chamber reamer to closely match an existing die mftrs stock die sets. That certainly is possible. Both Dave Kiff (PTG reamers) and Dave Manson (Manson reamers) supply reamers for die mftrs and can match your chamber with a known die set. I just did this with a custom 6 Dasher chamber reamer and matched John Widdens die set to my chamber on the body sizing to give me minimal sizing and it was an off the shelf die set. All I ended up changing was one dimension .001 to do that.

I don't like to quote because it sometimes looks like an attack on the quoted. This is just for clarification and debate, not to start an argument.

I read all the post to see if/where someone might have said that a prefect chamber "Resized" your brass. I did not find any such statement or quote. In fact if you place any round in a chamber that has not been fired in that chamber it will "Size" It to fit the chamber. So in reality I guess it does "Resize" it the first time, but most of us call that fire forming.

In reference to a perfect chamber If it is not concentric or has some discontinuity's chances are that the fired case will not fit back in the chamber any other way except the was it was fired, so some resizing has to be done. And on a "Perfect chamber" Case head orientation is not required to be able to chamber the case with ease.

When cases become difficult to chamber some sizing is required and the amount depends on the use of that rifle and the dependability in difficulty situations.

A fire formed case is one way to tell if your chamber is true and concentric because the case will resist chambering if not placed in the same position as fired.

Resize reamers have always been used to make dies and are dimensionally smaller that chamber reamers and any one that calls himself a Gun smith knows that, and I found no mention that was to the contrary.

I also know lots of successful Bench rest shooters that Don't do any sizing including the necks, so it becomes a personal choice as in neck sizing or full length sizing or some where in between.

Again this post was to clarify what may have been misconstrued and not to start an argument.

J E CUSTOM