Inconsistent rifle due to recoil/muzzle climb

[buck8541]

This!
Stock design/fit isn't working for you & the rifle

Agreed!

I just picked up another 280AI from my gunsmith (my third). This one is built on a pre 64 action, 25", #3 Shilen barrel and was mounted in an older Brown Precision stock (I had lying around for God only knows how long). **** thing kicks like a mule because the stock is a straight design with a slight rise in the cheek rest area. This affected my groups after a few strings and groups opened from 1/2" to 1-1/2". I took the Brown Precision stock off and fitted a McMillan stock. Problem solved, no need for a muzzle brake, groups stay small and shoots just as comfortably as my other 280 AI's.

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's obvious that the severe recoil / muzzle jump is affecting accuracy before
the bullet exits the bore. The notion that there is no recoil until the bullet
exits the bore is nonsense.

I stated that before the shooter FEELS any recoil it exits, not that none happens... Newton's 3rd Law proves that inertia starts happening as soon as the bullet starts moving forward. However, it's also a matter of mass ratios. There is no noticeably felt recoil to the shooter, before the bullet exits the muzzle, because the rifle's mass is hundreds of times greater than that of the bullet's mass (depending on the weights of each). So, the recoil energy must overcome the weight of the gun before it starts to move the gun backwards, and this is only about 0.15" of recoil by the time the bullet has cleared the muzzle. ... The recoil felt after the projectile leaves the barrel is the end of the buildup as the all the hot gasses are expelled instantaneously into the atmosphere.

For a simple example, say you have a rifle that weighs 8 lbs. (56,000 grains). And a bullet that weighs 160 grains. There is a 350:1 weight ratio. The bullet must buildup enough velocity to create more recoil than 350x its own weight, to overcome the weight of the firearm, before there is any felt recoil.

 

[Marc Gauthier]

False

 

[Marc Gauthier]

lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

remove your bipod and try again, sorry for my english

 

[MajorSpittle]

lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?

Witt muzzle break cured my tikka t3 3006 recoil issue. It was the same in that it needed held super tight to group good.

 

[Sam Summey]

I built one on a Ruger 77 action medium weight Lothar Walther Barrel 20 years ago, Bell& Carlson stock bedded. 140/60 gr IMR 4831 quite mild up to mule deer.
Loaded 162/58gr IMR 4831 for elk hunt last fall noticeable recoil difference. Still shoots about a minute. Shooting from a bench recoil is more noticeable, learn to shoot from prone, sitting, kneeling, or a rest, get away from the bench. I sure have installed a lot of muzzle breaks on 7 Mag, 300 Mag rifles for guys who shoot off bench.

 

[seattleman1969]

I had the same situation with a Weatherby Vanguard Sub MOA in .300wsm. I changed the barrel to a #4 Bartlien, sanded out the barrel channel to fit and attached a 5 port brake. Gun shoots 1/2 moa all day.

My .300 WSM Vanguard did the exact same thing, from the bench or not. Even with all action screws torgued appropriately and a full action bedding it would still have extremely heavy bolt lift with standard factory ammunition. This was in the aluminum chassis Bell and Carlson stock. I ended up getting rid of it because I could not get it to shoot. Some rifles are just like that and I didn't want to invest any more in it.

 

[coyotezapper]

lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?

I encourage you to watch this video. What you need to pick up here from this video is the method at which they handle the rifle at the bench. The video is actually about trouble shooting a rifle but my point here is to watch how they handle/shoot the rifle. Nathan is a big proponent of this way of shooting from a bench stating that most if not all hunting rifles are not necessarily designed to shoot free recoil. Just comparing a hunting stock to a Benchrest stock you see a big difference and when you add in recoil it really magnifies the ability to shoot consistently. I also see this issue with inexperienced shooters/hunters when shooting mountain rifles - 5-7 lb. These rifles need to be handled different to be consistent.

 

[MudRunner2005]

False

Prove it

 

[Rainy]

Muzzle break, better recoil pad, glass bedding.

 

[Canhunter35]

Muzzle brake is where you should start
The barrel should also be free floated, a pressur point will induce vertical stringing

 

[Jack R Tishue Jr]

Have you gotten a good load already? If so, why shoot from the bench at all. Practice off hand. I have one 300Wby that'll literally give you a head ache in 5 shots from the bench, but only trys to jump out of you hands off hand (lol). It's a light weight model. But sense load determined, shoot it offhand as no benches in the woods/mountains.

 

[Patriot Reaper]

lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?

What is your shooting position? A lightweight rifle with a stout round typically needs the forend held (as in the prone position for the across the course shooting or in typical sling shooting positions) If you are leaving the forend free as in a bipod/rear bag setup (totally different kind of shooting) or in a bench setup, you could be exacerbating the recoil effect. Another option is to use a slightly different approach like hooking over the scope with the offhand and holding it down into the bags. In either case, recoil management will help minimize the recoil component of the inaccuracy.

 

[piute]

Hey there Dirty 45, looks like you'll be getting plenty of help, LOL. What kind of accuracy are you getting? It would be nice to see some pic's of groups shot.
GoodLuck!