I will not be getting 'the vaccine'...

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Just to be a smart *** the Spanish flu was less than 100 years ago and was far far worse than this. I'm not saying either way the vaccine is bad i in fact think it's fine. But it's not as bad as many say. I know two people one close to me who had a hard time but know many more with very small issues if any. To be fair I'm just Messing with you as the Spanish flu is almost 100 years ago.
Gotta ask what area do you guys live. Out hospitals have seen very few certainly not overrun. Not even close that is spectrum in Grand Rapids Mi.
I'm in a rural area of California. We've had peaks and troughs like a lot of places. We lagged behind the rest of the state for a long time and I sort of rolled my eyes at it all being hyped up to much. But then it really hit our community and did a lot of damage. That's a big part of the issue with this pandemic—every community is going to be a little different in their trajectory. Some may not be hit as bad, some will really suffer. We had time to see LA turn into a 3rd world country as we grabbed up supplies and made plans to convert other units of the hospital to ICU units. We still were only a few patients away during the last spike from enacting "rationing" of ventilators and ICU level care despite having plenty of time to prepare. I am truly thankful we did not end up there and I hate to say it, but we have the "alarmists" to thank for that. It got a lot worse than I personally expected it to.

I think covid ranks up there with Spanish flu. Maybe not as bad but we're also not done with it yet. It's bad in different ways. Plus thanks to modern medicine people can suffer longer before the virus does them in. Weeks and months in the hospital with no visits from family allowed. Ventilators, tracheostomy, ecmo—just a few of the ways we can use modern medicine to prolong death (and save some people of course). Most people will be fine yes but before it's done I think most people will know someone who died, or at least suffered terribly.

I offer my opinions here but do not pass judgement on anyone who doesn't want the vaccine. It IS scary that it happened so fast, and with so little testing compared to other vaccines. But overall I think it's fine and it's worth the "risks" so to speak. But I will not pass judgement on people who don't want it.
 
Must add I think that people at great risk should indeed get it. I just can't get behind anti vaccine people in the broad term. Have they never seen what polio does to a child. Not to mention the main study that showed autism links was falsified. The doctor is in jail I believe.
Yup. That dude was legit paid to make crap up. He even fooled one of the premier medical journals (Lancet) to publish that study. Probably thousands of kids have died thanks to him. These days is much easier to pass around false or misleading info.
 
I had COVID in October, spent 10 days in icu and nearly passed. IMO anyone that doesn't fear this disease or is willingly passing on the vaccine is a fool.
But for your story we have hundreds that have very minor if any symptoms. So yes it was terrible for you and some others the numbers simply don't put this in the column of I need an untested vaccine. Especially since I'm in the age group that has a incredibly low death rate. Heck it seems to be on par with the flu. Doesn't mean some shouldn't get it but we need to follow the numbers and science behind it.
It's my general rule for everything.
Again not saying I won't get it but to assume I'm a fool for not is crazy. Many people have tested positive for the antibodies and never knew they had it. Plus what happens if we force everyone to take it and in ten years find out it was the very wrong way forward.
 
Anectodical evidence is only evidence of anecdotes.

Here's mine:
I have friends who work in hospitals and its not been a great year for them at all. Maybe your hospital hasn't been hit hard, that's fine. The metro areas where my friends work have been through hell and back because half the population can't stay home or wear a mask.

I've had friends who are young and healthy and got hit like a ton of bricks. Sure there are some that don't have bad symptoms now, but we don't understand the long term health impacts either. A close friend that had it bad still has trouble breathing months later, but sure they didn't die.

I work in a job where I am out interacting with people regularly. I have had far too many mention as I am leaving their home that "oh my son is home with covid" or similar. It is very very clear to me that other people don't care about whether or not they pass it to me, they only care that I come to their property and do my job.

Me? Vaccine the second I can get it. I am younger than most here and have three generations of family working for major pharmaceutical companies. Shoot me up doc.

Edit to add:
Just because someone has Dr. in front of their name doesn't mean their opinion on a medical subject is of value. Anyone who knows anyone in any profession should know that just because you're in a field doesn't mean you're an expert on everything.
 
Anectodical evidence is only evidence of anecdotes.

Here's mine:
I have friends who work in hospitals and its not been a great year for them at all. Maybe your hospital hasn't been hit hard, that's fine. The metro areas where my friends work have been through hell and back because half the population can't stay home or wear a mask.

I've had friends who are young and healthy and got hit like a ton of bricks. Sure there are some that don't have bad symptoms now, but we don't understand the long term health impacts either. A close friend that had it bad still has trouble breathing months later, but sure they didn't die.

I work in a job where I am out interacting with people regularly. I have had far too many mention as I am leaving their home that "oh my son is home with covid" or similar. It is very very clear to me that other people don't care about whether or not they pass it to me, they only care that I come to their property and do my job.

Me? Vaccine the second I can get it. I am younger than most here and have three generations of family working for major pharmaceutical companies. Shoot me up doc.
I was just pointing out that as you have friends that say it terrible I have friends and family that prepared for the worst and it was not. And Grand Rapids is pretty urban. As much so as Detroit.
Now I don't work in the field but my mother ran the surgical dept for over 20 years and seems to think that a lot of hype was built up.
 
there was a doctor on Newsmax this morning at 8:30. I didn't catch the whole interview but what I did was interesting looking back after reading this tread.
she was saying that they were working on this vaccine for 5 years because this is just a variation of other corona viruses and things were put into high gear by the Trump administration so maybe this vaccine is farther ahead than we think. we all know how consistant CDC has been so nothing surprises me
 
Thanks for the good discussion folks! Dr. Willfrye 027 thank you for your good info and first hand observations. Not getting vaccinated has never even crossed my mind and now a couple of months into it with very few side effects I am even more determined to get it as soon as possible.
Not getting vaccinated is kind of like playing Russian roulette. The only way to win is not play the game.
There are a lot of places in the world where it is going to take quite a while to get this virus under control. If we can get America immune we can then help lots of other folks. Please get the shot! Heck it might save your Mom's life!
 
Interesting times. I'm adamant about it being a personal choice. I say be honest with yourself. Do some serious due diligence. Asymptomatic transmission is pretty well established. Do you have a responsibility to others? How much effort or inconvenience are you willing to tolerate to protect someone you don't know? When you interact with a stranger do you know if they're going to be taking care of their parents later that day? Was it 10,000 baby boomers retiring per day recently? Anybody recall hearing America has an obesity/diabetes issue? What's your life expectancy prior to covid? How would taking the vaccine alter that? How would taking the vaccine alter the lives of those you don't know?
 
Thanks for the good discussion folks! Dr. Willfrye 027 thank you for your good info and first hand observations. Not getting vaccinated has never even crossed my mind and now a couple of months into it with very few side effects I am even more determined to get it as soon as possible.
Not getting vaccinated is kind of like playing Russian roulette. The only way to win is not play the game.
There are a lot of places in the world where it is going to take quite a while to get this virus under control. If we can get America immune we can then help lots of other folks. Please get the shot! Heck it might save your Mom's life!
That is exactly why I will more than likely get it when the time comes. Because of my parents being prime for the bad effects of covid especially my mom with severe asthma
 
I wonder if people worry about how "quickly" the flu shot is developed every year. As said earlier, the vaccine wasn't made from scratch. Your adapting centuries of science to a new problem, not reinventing the wheel. The flu shot is new every year, I've gotten it happily.

I live across the country and have not seen my family in over a year. I've stayed home and made sacrafices while others pretended this wasn't an issue and made it worse. You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem, give me the shot so I can go back to my normal life.
 
As a police detective, I am trained to believe nothing I hear and half of what I see. Until it is thoroughly proven and peer reviewed, I can't write an affidavit or raise my hand on the stand. This is a learned behavior that anyone can practice . It takes time to research everything but after a short time, one will very easily be able to notice indicators of deception or fallacy. In this day and age, misinformation is a culture in of itself and we would be wise to accept that. The best place to practice critical thinking skills and learn about fallacy is your social media feed. Question everything and research!
 
What position is that? From my position is the hospital as a physician I can tell you it is indeed gruesome. Our country has not seen suffering like this in 100 years. I can not think of a worse way to die for myself or someone I cared about than from covid.

I do not mean to be rude or argumentative, but you have stumbled across a fringe movement here. Mainstream medicine is not behind this because the overwhelming body of evidence is clear. It's not a political issue (I'm conservative), it's a fact vs fiction issue.
Mississippi and Alabama are both overwhelmed. We were turning the elderly with severe disease away 2 months ago, as we had to decide whose life was more important. We are still near or at full capacity. I've lost dear friends and neighbors who chose not to take this seriously, and some who did but were infected by those that didn't. I've completed my vaccine series with ZERO adverse effects except a little soreness around the injections site that lasted a day and a half. I received the Moderna product. We have people on a waiting list as the product is in very limited supply and being allocated. There have been drive-thru clinics, and clinics set up in Churches and other areas serving the elderly, but we don't have the quantity to vaccinate everyone. There have been reports of low grade fever, fatigue, and headache beginning anywhere from about 12 hours to 48 hours post-inoculation. Some have needed to take off work the day after or 2 days after, but have been able to return the following day as symptoms resolved.

Absolutely everything I've seen or heard about the vaccine's negative effects pales in comparison to the rapid onset of shortness of breath, brain hemorrhages, pulmonary emboli, stroke, renal failure, and death of those who succumb. This does not even consider the decline and death from sudden, unexplained heart failure, hypertension, renal failure, or embolism occurring suddenly in scores of patients who were thought to have fully recovered months prior.

What I personally find so amazing about this entire ordeal is how 2 people observing the same phenomena from different perspectives can come to such polar opposite conclusions based on the same observations. There will certainly be countless volumes of texts written on the subject of human behavior for study in our psychology and sociology classrooms for the rest of history based on that very premise. It's the old argument of I say it's black, you say it's white on a global scale. Truly unexplainable and amazing to me at the present time.

At the end of the day, each of us has to make up their own minds. The big brother conspiracy theories are entertaining, but they fail to consider how the people who run big brother can't even agree on how much money should be spent on their own office supplies, let alone cohesively advance an agenda of mass population genocide, control, or imprisonment, whatever the ulterior motive might be reported to be and have it carried out with such precision and flawless progression. We have actually had people ask if there was a tracking device in the injection. No, but the number assigned to you from right after birth and the lo-Jack you carry around in your pocket or purse in the form of a cellular phone will pretty much pinpoint you every time you make a move. If they wanted to find you, it wouldn't be difficult with or without receiving the vaccine. It is truly amazing to me how so many people, many of whom are fairly well-educated, can really believe in some of this stuff. If there is going to be a mass effort to kill, imprison, track, or otherwise molest our citizenry, it will stem from this anti- movement's paranoia from within the general population, not from the government that can't tie it's own shoe laces without a year of debates, millions of dollars, and finally a compromise that the laces can be tied, but only so tight.
 
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