I need some help explaining this one

[3sixbits]

[ QUOTE ]
I see School of Thought #1 has weighed in.

Some of us just have a lot of frog chromosones in us and "will jump into neck turning without a clue".

Yes, it has occurred to my to try to remember where I put the chamber cast for the 240Wby.

As far as religouis prohibitions goes:

I do believe that God did issue some instructions on neck turning and Lot's wife ignored those instructions and turned her neck and as punishment God transformed her into a pillar of salt. So 3sixbits it does seem that you are right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Buff: Please don't try making sense out of some of these crap"ola ideas folks have locked in there heads. The most outrageous of which is flash-hole uniforming. Again, someone please explain to me how sticking a hand power reamer in a case and giving it a twist is making anything uniform? Have you been honest with yourself and really tested this enough to prove that it helps? It kills me to hear folks rattle on about the care and loading they give there cases, while listening I turn the cases over and see the primer pockets are off center. Just because a banana is your favorite fruit does not mean that your brass is good when it is in the same shape. Just maybe all of us have a hidden desire to make a silk purse out of a sows ear! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jb1000br]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see School of Thought #1 has weighed in.

Some of us just have a lot of frog chromosones in us and "will jump into neck turning without a clue".

Yes, it has occurred to my to try to remember where I put the chamber cast for the 240Wby.

As far as religouis prohibitions goes:

I do believe that God did issue some instructions on neck turning and Lot's wife ignored those instructions and turned her neck and as punishment God transformed her into a pillar of salt. So 3sixbits it does seem that you are right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Buff: Please don't try making sense out of some of these crap"ola ideas folks have locked in there heads. The most outrageous of which is flash-hole uniforming. Again, someone please explain to me how sticking a hand power reamer in a case and giving it a twist is making anything uniform? Have you been honest with yourself and really tested this enough to prove that it helps? It kills me to hear folks rattle on about the care and loading they give there cases, while listening I turn the cases over and see the primer pockets are off center. Just because a banana is your favorite fruit does not mean that your brass is good when it is in the same shape. Just maybe all of us have a hidden desire to make a silk purse out of a sows ear! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you tested to prove it doesnt make a difference?

as soon as i get my 6mmbr together, i will be testing a few thing rather extensively.

JB

 

[Buffalobob]

3sixbits

With out any of the humor thrown in this time I will say you are most likely right.

I am very clear in my mind what I am trying to accomplish. I am trying to learn techniques that I have shrugged off off as being unneccesary for 35+ years.

I am pretty clear in my mind that the 17 needs a new barrel to shoot better but at 0.5 MOA it still does what I bought it for and I have noted that with all my "improvements" in the brass it is shooting worse at 0.7MOA. Kirby mentions in his post that this occurs sometimes. Your comment on chamber cast is exactly right and I know it. On the 17 Rem brass made by Remington, I checked every flash hole and everyone of them was larger than the tool. Your point is 100% correct that if they are too big to begin with you can not get them uniform nor smaller. On Norma 240 Wby and 7mmWby every flash hole is just slightly small. And I am probably an idiot for sticking benchrest primers in those Remington pockets not to mention that the benchrest primers appear to be giving me bad ignition. On uniforming primer pockets it appears to me that I am usually doing more damage than good and am getting the bases too loose on about one in 10 or so. As far as neck turning, I first tried it on about 200 pieces of very old brass and threw it all away and started with new and have ruined about $60 of 7mm Wby norma brass. I will probably ruin more before I figure out how to do it correctly and when to do it. I do not use power tools on brass although I may get a power case trimmer after looking at what I am doing with the old RCBS trim dies to the mouth.

I do not take any of your comments a miss. I am just very determined that I will master the benchrest case preparation techniques.

Maybe at some point in time I will figure out when to use benchrest techniques and when a set of $19.95 RCBS dies is all that the gun needs.

Thanks

I have to go mail in an application to shoot in a 1000yd match being as I did not look stupid enough at 500yards.

 

[Guest]

B Bob

What a way with words. I could not have said it better. Very well said indeed.

I think sir you are 100% right.

Got an email from the master............Matthews. Quit spending so much time reading on the PC...Stop reloading so much....And just shoot! I do believe that boy was correct /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Joe

 

[41mag]

Primer pockets and such....

"The most outrageous of which is flash-hole uniforming. Again, someone please explain to me how sticking a hand power reamer in a case and giving it a twist is making anything uniform? Have you been honest with yourself and really tested this enough to prove that it helps? It kills me to hear folks rattle on about the care and loading they give there cases, while listening I turn the cases over and see the primer pockets are off center."

The only benifit I can see is when you slip that little center drill into a case and find a chunk of brass about the size of a match head being cut out of the way possibly making the primer flash a bit more uniform. As far as off centered holes, yep seen them too. Those are my special reserve brass for when I am hog hunting in thick cover or hunting in the tall grassy areas at my friends place, and do not intend to ever find that case again.

Yes I can honestly say that I have tried this and proved that it definately makes a difference in several of my rifles as well as a dozen or so more friends. I got into doing some of this very stuff years ago when I did some custom loads for hunting bud's. I had several which I could not make their gun shoot anything it seemed. However I am the type that just really hates to take no for an answer. So, I started at the bottom and worked up. First I cleaned and squared the primer pockets. This helped some but didn't get me where I thought I needed to be. So I moved on to some of the flash holes. Immediately this helped in two rifles, groups shrank from 1.75" to under 1". This is out of factory rifles. The brass was full length resized and had a maximum of 6 loads before going into my stash. This way I could always be sure that I was using good brass for their loads. I do have to add that the flash hole touch up has consistantly worked better with full density, or slightly compressed loads, more often than not.

As for the neck trimming, well I have had to do that also, but only on two rifles. My Winchester 243, and my Ruger 22-250. Each will get tight on closing the bolt after three firings. Not that I am complaining, but it is just something that I have found to have to be done. Both are straight factory and will group in around .375 at 100 yds. My Factory Remington BDL in 25/06, it took a shine to the primer pockets being squared and flash holes being deburred. It shrank the groups for it from around 1.25" to under .5 at 100 yds. IT will also hold this group out to close to 300 if I am doing my part. This has been verified my more than just me shooting it.

All of the above was done using the same loads in the before trimmed cases as after. The only difference was the extra case prep. I will add that I have also found that in some factory rifles, stopping your full lenght resize about .075" or so from hitting the shoulder will also help center the case in the chamber and aid in groups. This has just been my experiences through about 25+ years of serious loading. I am not claiming to be any sort of an expert, but I have tried and seen improvemnts made by some of these techniques mentiond. However, every firearm is just like every women, your have to learn for yourself what it takes to make them happy and then decide if it's worth the price of keeping them around.

 

[DaddyRabbit]

CM..a Wise Man..hmmm, who are we talking about here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif? [ QUOTE ]
A wise Man C.M. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif told me dont even fool with neck turning. I figured I'd listen to him and got a better group.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[DaddyRabbit]

LMAO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...He gave me the same advice..just not as Elequite.

[ QUOTE ]
B Bob

What a way with words. I could not have said it better. Very well said indeed.

I think sir you are 100% right.

Got an email from the master............Matthews. Quit spending so much time reading on the PC...Stop reloading so much....And just shoot! I do believe that boy was correct /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Joe

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[LB]

The problem is; and the most likely reason why CM made the statement; is because some people do not understand neck turning and where it is applicable. Same with primer pockets, and the removal of flash from the inside of the case. "Uniforming" the seating depth of the primer pocket is a different operation, entirely.

Do these procedures have value? Depends. Will any "procedure" on your brass, suddenly turn the average factory rifle into a quarter incher? Unlikely.

Good hunting. LB

 

[3sixbits]

The only thing in my life that has a totally honest approach (outside of scripture) is the scientific method. This has been my guiding light low these many years of shooting, and when I feel that I want a certain result from my work, I will only test double blind. It is vary hard to keep what we think we know out of the realm of what we know! Hey I'm just as guilty as the next guy. When this flashole uniformer first hit the market, I bought one. 1975 I remember the year well, My first taste of benchrest shooting. It took me years before I tested this theory. I'm no smarter than anybody else, but I was looking for what worked and what did not work. It costs a heck of a lot of money and time to prove one way or another what works and what doesn't when using the scientific method. This is why so few people do it. And hell, it is a lot easier to just go on spouting the same old crap as everyone else. You kinda fit-in better that way. Benchrest is the best place I know to learn follow the leader. If you don't think some shooters don't get a kick out of this, guess again. A good case spinner will tell you what you need to know about your brass before you get your bowels in and uproar. Spin the cases boys and learn. I've saved a ton of work spinning new cases, rejecting the bad and selling it to the guys that want to weigh all there bananas. Why shooters don't want to spin cases? It takes a heck of a lot of time, it cost nearly two hundred bucks to buy a really good cases spinning set-up, last but not least some guys just can't get away from the use of there reloading scales I guess. But if you are just wanting to prove that you can recite the rote about case preparation and are not embarrassed when you lie, then please don't let me stop you from having fun. I only hope your conscious BURNS like HELL ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif