How many in a test group?

[Zerk]

I was working up loads in Remington 760 this weekend. 4 rounds, then waiting a big for next grain. I came to realize the 3rd shot really opened up, and more so the 4th. Had me me wondering how time I had wasted in the past sighting in scopes and taking to many shots. I thought I was safe with 4 rounds.

2 shots seems to be a good proof for hunting round. But it does put pressure on you when testing.

Just curious if you shoot 3 in a row, or take breaks between every shot.



Also I actually did witness fouling shots. Sometimes I don't seem to notice a big difference after cleaning gun. But I sure did on the first 4 this weekend, for some reason.

Going to load up some practice rounds with cheap bullets. No since spending Noslers after cleaning.

Another was not grouping that great, has been off since last fall. Ran some copper remover, and then lead. Wow, that stuff that came out. I was just using Hoppes on this, and maybe 10 patches.

I also noted with the 760, after about 20-25 shots it seemed to open up. Granted you never know how much is me. I imagine varies between guns and powders.


I think it is the first year, I started practicing before end of summer, with 30-06. So should have some loads ready for once ahead of time.

 

[tbrice23]

For testing a new powder rarely I'll shoot four rounds each charge. Most always will be five shots.

Four shots is the least I've never been known to test with. HOWEVER, Wednesday im screwing on a 26 Nosler and I'm probably going to break my ethics code on this barrel and go three rounds !!!!

When I'm confident that a load is good enough I'll usually shoot seven round group. Once I did a 15 round group just to verify my abilities with that load.

Always wait for a hunting weight barrel to cool between shots. That fifteen round group took me over two hours to shoot. I only rely on cold barrel shots because that is the condition my barrel will be in a hunting scenario.

 

[Zerk]

I guess my question is do you wait long period between shot. I do between groups. But in the past I would fire a few, then let it cool and go to next charge.

I thought 4 shots would not get that hot.


Time before was a heavier 243 barrel, didnt notice this as much.

Makes me think of heavier barrel gun, so for more fun shooting.

 

[tbrice23]

I wait until the barrel is almost ambient temperature. Whether that is 3 minutes at 20° and 15 mph winds. Or 8 minutes at 75° in calm winds.

I even have a barrel cooler made from a cordless mattress pump that I use in hot dry conditions. That takes a couple of minutes off of my wait time.

 

[Zerk]

I was firing 2 shots, than walking 100 yards and back. Then usually sitting down for a few minutes, o screwing around.

Less that 2 shots may be more accurate test, but it also seems undesirable in a hunting gun. I am still only at .5 grain differences. Maybe less that that I would take breaks between shots.

I usually bring more than one gun. I don't have enough patience to wait that much.

 

[Trnelson]

TBrice is giving you great advice that I'll wholeheartedly repeat and expand upon. In a long range hunting rig the only shot that matters is the first and sometimes (rarely) the second. After that you are just looking through barrel mirage blowing money and barrel life downrange for no compelling reason. In load development I will very very rarely shoot three shots to track how velocity changes shot to shot and how that changes my POI. Otherwise it's a one and done deal until that barrel is completely ambient again for my long range hunting rifles.
Site your rig in at your chosen range with your ambient bore shot and follow it up once in a while with a second to track how the POI may shift. Keep a journal, record your environmentals and the POI. Don't waste your time shooting 'cheap' bullets in your long range rifle, there are dozens of reputably sourced articles and videos documenting how that is simply a waste of components and changes the POI of your regular load for several shots when you go back to your regular load.
It is a hunting rifle, shoot what you hunt with. Nothing else tells you anything relevant to that so don't waste your time, money and barrel life. Document your results and cleaning so you can learn what it does with changes in environmentals and be able to go back and look.
If you want to just practice and blow holes in paper all day long that's great! I'd suggest using a 22LR or a 5.56 or even a similar rifle to your long range rig. Light it up to your hearts contentment with those rigs, have a great time. Shooting is fun! Then take a shot with your long range hunting rig, document it and go back to your other guns.
Successful long range hunting is deeply dependent on consistency. Knowing exactly where that bullet will print in a given set of environmental circumstances before you even take the safety off. Practice how you plan to play.

 

[Bullet bumper]

3 shots test the load and gun 5 shots tests the shooter .

 

[Greyfox]

3 shots test the load and gun 5 shots tests the shooter .

Agreed! For my hunting rifles, unless I believe I flubbed a shot, three works for me for load testing and rifle checks. I usually shoot three from a cold barrel in under 30 seconds. If it doesn't hold it's accuracy under this condition, for me, it's not qualified to hunt.

 

[Zerk]

TBrice in look.
If you want to just practice and blow holes in paper all day long that's great! I'd suggest using a 22LR or a 5.56 or even a similar rifle to your long range rig. Light it up to your hearts contentment with those rigs, have a great time. Shooting is fun! Then take a shot with your long range hunting rig, document it and go back to your other guns.
Successful long range hunting is deeply dependent on consistency. Knowing exactly where that bullet will print in a given set of environmental circumstances before you even take the safety off. Practice how you plan to play.

I know waste of money, but I enjoy shooting 30-06. I like to think it is good to practice
I

 

[Zerk]

What I meant to ask is time between shots. For hunting gun I am doing shots, not that far apart. I went around targets, stopping between loads.

First I did 4 shot groups. But I was noticing a flyer. Maybe me nor concentrating as shooting goes on.

So I sighted gun to target, and then did 2 shots per load on target with 5 bullseyes. Nice way to compare. Just starting out. Don't have dialed to max yet. But I thought for 1/2 grain intervals, this was interesting.



This weekend was a pump 30-06 with imr4350. None of them stood out all about 1".

Session before with 243 and heavy barrel, I witness differences and was able to choose a load to work with further. 1/10ths. Maybe seating depths and crimp.



The 1" group may be the limit of pump, or me with pump. I should go to 200 yard range and find out if groups and loads are still same. But at this point will probably go 1/2 to 1 grain less than max load, I were to load for hunting tomorrow.



Either way I was surprised 3 and 4th shots opened.

 

[tbrice23]

Here is a load verification group shot at 200 yards with a sporter weight factory Savage barrel.
Notice how the 6th and 7th shot opened up. I waited 6 or 7 minutes between shots. Most definitely was shooter fatigue as this 9.8 lb 270wsm with 150gr vld at 3263 fps kind of beats me up after a few shots.
If I would have stopped at 5 shots the group would have been .322 moa.

 

[Zerk]

Anyone putting a giant scope on, just to check loads? Not hard to mount a scope, though I like having my rifles ready all the time. Never know when work, injury, or such would prevent you from putting the hunting scope on.

 

[Bullet bumper]

Agreed! For my hunting rifles, unless I believe I flubbed a shot, three works for me for load testing and rifle checks. I usually shoot three from a cold barrel in under 30 seconds. If it doesn't hold it's accuracy under this condition, for me, it's not qualified to hunt.

Same for me also . If I think I pulled a shot I let the barrel cool down and start a new 3 shot group . Watching the wind is just as important as tuning the load .

 

[Bullet bumper]

Here is a load verification group shot at 200 yards with a sporter weight factory Savage barrel.
Notice how the 6th and 7th shot opened up. I waited 6 or 7 minutes between shots. Most definitely was shooter fatigue as this 9.8 lb 270wsm with 150gr vld at 3263 fps kind of beats me up after a few shots.
If I would have stopped at 5 shots the group would have been .322 moa.

Good example . The hunting gun I like puts the first cold bore shot right on the money. After that it's target shooting not hunting .