How do you lower S.D.?

[Buffalobob]

My first long range rifle would not group better than 1.25 inches at 100 yards but I got a whole series of 5 shot groups less than 0.75MOA at ranges from 500 yards out to 1200 yards (these were outside edge to outside edge in 7mm). That was back in 1978. I have a degree in physics and another in engineering and did not understand why it did that but the results were there on multiple pieces of paper.

Of course having a degree in physics is somewhat like having an MD. You would be a fool to go to a podiatrist for a triple bypass. There are specialist in physics just like every other discipline. A PhD in astrophysics might give you a lot of good information on a lunar exclipse but would be a poor person to answer a ballistics question. I personally always hated rotational dynamics and optics when in school and the irony is that now they are the main components of my favorite pastime.

 

[Reloader]

Do you have any knowledge of physics?

Nope.

That's what I thought. The rest of your post are pointless.

I'm done with this one, some just never learn.

Have a good one,

Reloader

 

[Weda]

Reloader,

Aww common the kid is so personable and humble, you could add modest to that as well.
Wonderful personality and harldy ever lets you know he's the best, and everyone else falls short in comparison.

 

[goodgrouper]

I'm done with this one, .

Have a good one,

Reloader

Ahhhh, you can't meet the challenge either?? I was really hoping you would try and defend your beliefs. Darn. What a let down. But somehow, I think you'll be back to try and get the last word......

 

[goodgrouper]

Reloader,

Aww common the kid is so personable and humble, you could add modest to that as well.
Wonderful personality and harldy ever lets you know he's the best, and everyone else falls short in comparison.

I re-empahsize my last post to you. As one of the people who PM'd me concerning this thread (one of many) said, "stupid is not an act, and you just can't help some people." "there are lots of people like weda around".

By the way, I'm still waiting for some proof from your side of the court. Ever gonna try and make a constructive post or do you just like wallowing in personal attacks and rhetoric? Your lack of integrity is absolutely amazing.

 

[Steve Shelp]

Have you ever shot the Firewalker or the Gateway in Colorado?

GG,
No I haven't. I beleive I have heard of the Firewalker but not the Gateway match.

Here are the ranges I have fired at:
1000yd - Colorado Rifle Club in Byers, Co
1000yd - Iowa 1000yd BR Club in Pella, IO
600yd - Varmint Hunters Association in Ft Pierre, S. Dakota.

I have never competed in the short range game out west. I keep close to home for the short range stuff. With raising 2 boys and my wife going back to school also right now, I only go on 1 big shooting trip each year. We are planning on being at the NBRSA 1000yd Nationals in Byers, CO this year.

On the subject of smaller MOA groups at longer range, we would see this a lot years ago with the 6.5-300WWH with the fast twist barrels. Never could explain why it would happen more with that rifle then others, but it would happen. My current comp rifles will group very well at short range.

Steve

 

[goodgrouper]

GG,
No I haven't. I beleive I have heard of the Firewalker but not the Gateway match.

Here are the ranges I have fired at:
1000yd - Colorado Rifle Club in Byers, Co
1000yd - Iowa 1000yd BR Club in Pella, IO
600yd - Varmint Hunters Association in Ft Pierre, S. Dakota.

I have never competed in the short range game out west. I keep close to home for the short range stuff. With raising 2 boys and my wife going back to school also right now, I only go on 1 big shooting trip each year. We are planning on being at the NBRSA 1000yd Nationals in Byers, CO this year.

On the subject of smaller MOA groups at longer range, we would see this a lot years ago with the 6.5-300WWH with the fast twist barrels. Never could explain why it would happen more with that rifle then others, but it would happen. My current comp rifles will group very well at short range.

Steve

Thanks Steve. The firewalker is short range comp for group and the Gateway is a mid to long range fun shoot at exploding targets. It is a lot of fun and there usually is a pretty big crowd. With the price of gas, it is hard to make all the shoots you want to nowadays! But if you ever feel the need to come back out to Colorado, don't miss the gateway. It's a blast (literally).

 

[Captn C]

I think I can pee father than all of you except Bufflobob!

Just kidding!


I not a very smart person…the MOA thing still bugs me. I run an offshore charter business, so I am used to nautical miles (1.15 nautical mile=1mile) when used on maps and during navigation, but a nautical miles is still 1.15 of a mile even after you travel 100 nautical miles out.

Any way the point of all that…this MOA thing gets larger the farther out you get…right?

So a 1MOA group@100= 1.047"…½ MOA @800 is not 0.527"…right? It's more like 4" and change. I didn't do the math on it so forgive me.

I think this is what makes all this so hard to absorb, at least to me. If an 800 yard MOA and 100 yard MOA were the exact inch measurement. It would mean the group was the same at 800 as it was at 100.That is where I think things are getting confused.

I think another thing that needs to be stated; the bullet path….I think most expect the bullet path to be cone shaped…getting larger the further away you get. BUT as I now understand it once the yaw is out of the bullet it will continue on a nearly parallel path to the original force…and follow nearly parallel to the other bullets in the group. That would explain why the group wouldn't continue to grow in size as one would expect.

If I am correct I have learn something from this somewhat childish little feud you guys have been having. If I'm not correct….I still think I can out pee ya!gun)

 

[Weda]

Ever gonna try and make a constructive post or do you just like wallowing in personal attacks and rhetoric? Your lack of integrity is absolutely amazing.

Wow, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I think you must be talking about you. As I never called you a name or said anything disrespectful. However, you on the other hand...
Look up the word integrity.

Now there son, again, I'm simply saying, again. I havn't clearly made up my mind exactly how I feel about this issue. Nothing more, nothing less. It is you that keep coming back to other issues, attacks and rhetoric.

 

[Weda]

CaptC,

Yes you are right...

if you shoot an 1" group at 100 yards. In therory your group will be 10" at 1000 yards.

Now what GG and UncleB are saying is that some bullets don't go to sleep until they have surpassed 100 yards. Meaning they are not stabilized. IE: pitching an yawing and therefor the groups size on paper may be 1" or greater at 100 yards. Then if you go to 500 yards, the groups size should be 5". However, they are saying that in some instances the bullets that aren't "asleep" at 100 yards, fall asleep ( become stable ) and then at 500 yards actually print a smaller group, lets say 3"

 

[eddybo]

Someone just explained this to me in a new way and it made more sense to me, but I dont know if this is what happening. Someone tell me if I have my little brain somewhat wrapped around what is happening.

First the bullet is fired along its intended path. Because of stabilization issues the bullet has yaw which causes gravity from the out of round rotation of the bullet to deviate from its course in a circular motion much, like water being sucked down a drain.
Once the bullet begins stabilizing the unequal rotational forces acting upon the bullet which have been spinning the bullet off kilter lessen, allowing the concentric circles that the bullet has been traveling around its intended path to shrink....like the bullet actually entering the drain after it has been spinning around it.

So in actuality the bullet isnt deviating from its path but is actually orbiting its path until it stabilizes?

Kinda like an arrow that kicks off the rest, but is eventually stabilized by its fletchings?

 

[KQguy]

Someone just explained this to me in a new way and it made more sense to me, but I dont know if this is what happening. Someone tell me if I have my little brain somewhat wrapped around what is happening.

First the bullet is fired along its intended path. Because of stabilization issues the bullet has yaw which causes gravity from the out of round rotation of the bullet to deviate from its course in a circular motion much, like water being sucked down a drain.
Once the bullet begins stabilizing the unequal rotational forces acting upon the bullet which have been spinning the bullet off kilter lessen, allowing the concentric circles that the bullet has been traveling around its intended path to shrink....like the bullet actually entering the drain after it has been spinning around it.

So in actuality the bullet isnt deviating from its path but is actually orbiting its path until it stabilizes?

Kinda like an arrow that kicks off the rest, but is eventually stabilized by its fletchings?

I think that is one of the better explanations we have had so far.I think that is what most people were trying to say,they just did not know how to word it.

 

[Captn C]

I have not liked the bow and arrow analogy because a lot of the flex is caused by the length of the arrow. A bow that is not center shot will add deflection to the flex issue. And seeing how bullets don't have any feathers on them…The feathers/vanes cause drag that bullets don't have…being too nip-picky ain't I?!?!?

Bullet are stiff and wouldn't have the flex issues of an arrow.

I'll go back to being the second most common thing on the planet.

 

[uncleB]

Wow, if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. I think you must be talking about you. As I never called you a name or said anything disrespectful. However, you on the other hand...
Look up the word integrity.

Now there son, again, I'm simply saying, again. I havn't clearly made up my mind exactly how I feel about this issue. Nothing more, nothing less. It is you that keep coming back to other issues, attacks and rhetoric.

weda,
You have got to be kidding !!!!!!!! after all the posts on this topic you are the only one that has added NOTHING but you keep posting, there are only 3 possible explanations. You are either unable or unwilling to pick up information, or you are just simply here to stir the pot. I believe it is a combination of all 3.
You are one huge contradiction in this post you claim there is something you never did and then in the next paragraph you do it.
If this is all you can bring please go ruin some other forum and leave the 99.5% of the good people here alone,
ENOUGH can you pay attention long enough to let this register ENOUGH !!!!!!!!