How about a switch barrel ...?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dwm, Mar 27, 2004.

  1. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    So if I buy a long action Savage with UltraMag bolt face, I can buy as many barrel's for it I want and all I have to do is loosen the barrel nut spin off a barrel, spin the new barrel on, set the headspade and tighten down the nut....???

    I could have a 6.5MM SAUM or WSM or a 7MM SAUM or WSM or RUM or 30 cal SAUM or WSM or RUM all based on the same stock and action!

    No gunsmith involved, just order the barrel from whoever I want and it will screw right on and work great. (No need to turn the face to set the headspace.)

    Is it really this simple?

    Comments please ....

    Doug

    [ 03-28-2004: Message edited by: dwm ]
     
  2. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    Some general comments on switch barrel guns please ...

    Savage looks like a good choice since you can get a new barrel and headspace it yourself ...

    Thanks,

    Doug
     
  3. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Doug, you are on the right track, but if you get a long action and try to use short action rounds for it, prepare to use it as a single shot. The short loads tend to pop up and out of the magazine wildly when feeding. If reliable feeding is needed, get 2 rifles. 1 long action and 1 short action. You can use one short action for 243's 308's and all the short magnums also if you get a second bolt. I know remington will sell you a second bolt IF you send them a barreled action with no bolt. A smith can then convert that bolt face. 1 potential problem with that is the rails in the magazine are differant from standard and short mag. So once again, one or the other would be used as a single shot. You would have to have it set up for HS Precision's detachable magazine and hope in the near future that they make available a magazine for the short magnum diameters. The same would be true of the long action. You could have 2 bolts. 1 for cases like the 300 WM or 7mm stw and another for big cases like the 300 or 338 Ultra mags.

    Regards
     
  4. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Michael,
    What long action, with rails for the Ultra Mag will not reliably feed the WSM's?

    Cycling slow and fast, I've checked the Rem 700 300 Ultra action I have and it feeds the 300 WSM case flawlessly, 1st through 3rd round. The first and second round fed both enter the front receiver ring up to the base of the shoulder before they can leave the rail. By then they cannot pop out, as they are too far into the chamber with the bolt backing them. They are actually quite docile entering the chamber using the standard Ultra Mag follower and spring combination, and the spring is stiffer than it needs to be. Pressure is balanced more tot he front of the WSM case, as it's designed for the Ultra Mag, but it works flawlessly in the 700. Upon firing it, you may find the cases drop low in the rear of the mag, but I seriously doubt they will. I would make sure to chamfer the hole in the bolt so it doesn't drag on the shoulder of the WSM case and force it down at the rear when withdrawing the bolt, but again, I doubt it would, a belted design would be worse. Cases falling low at the rear would be the thing I'd watch for, but it could be fixed easily if it happened.

    The last round fed is held under the rail 3/8" beyond the rail transition.

    See how the Savage feeds with the shorter WSM's, then compare it to the 700 action and then decide. I'll have a look at the Savage when I'm out at the gunshop.

    The new Savage actions have 1-1/8 thread diameter over the 700's 1-1/16 threads, so you could open the threads up in the 700 for the Savage barrels and use their barrel nuts on them, if you wanted to. I'd pin the lug on it, and have them all headspaced for your action as you normally would, use a T-handle action wrench and a barrel vice and just hit 20-30 lbs torque myself, Savage or Remington if you plan on using custom barrels.

    I believe the Ultra Mag and Short Mag chamberings in the Savage now come with the bottom of the bolt nose ring removed for semi-positive feed, so they feed the larger diameter cases easier, what I read on Sharp Shooter's Supply website I think.
     
  5. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    Meichele,

    I was getting the long action specifically for short action ultra/wsm magnum cartridges.

    That way I can seat the bullets ways out in the short magnum cases and still fit them in the long action magazine well. The Wyatt's box is just not long enough to fit heavy bullets in short mags the way I want to seat them.

    I was considering the fact that the Savage long action with RUM bolt face was a controlled round fed long action and so there shouldn't be a problem feeding the short mags.

    I am especially thinking of the SAUM/WSM cases with heavy 7MM bullets. I have a REM700 7mm SAUM and unless you stuff them way deep they won't fit in the mag well. The WSM are even longer and I can not see them working at all in a REM700 short action. (Ok, maybe single shot.)

    I don't want this one to be a single shot. I have a REM 700 7MM RUM that I have set up as single shot for long range. (17 lbs)

    I want this rifle to be man portable over long distances and I would like to have a follow up shot or two available.

    Are you sure the short mags will pop out of the long action mag well?

    Doug
     
  6. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Doug,

    Looks like you posted right after me...
    You're right, the case rim would be captured under the extractor in the Savage, so unless their rails are way short for their Ultra Mags it should work, I'd think.

    I didn't know you had a 700 already. How do the WSM's feed in yours?

    [ 03-28-2004: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If your Savage already has the controled round bolt head then it will work with the short mags , but the WSM is .005 wider case than the RUM.

    Personaly , when I have anything to do to a Savage now days and I'm not sure I give
    Kevin Rayhill a call , hes a damn good smith with a good turn around and decient prices.
     
  8. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Brent, I have a 7MM RSAUM and a 7MM RUM, no WSM yet. Bought a 7MM RSAUM REM700 BDL SS last year. Put a SA VSSF/Sendero stock on it and a muzzle brake. Have been shooting it for almost a year and hunted some with it last fall. It is great if used as a single shot. No complaints. I posted a picture of it with the bubble level a week or two ago.

    I am working on a new design based on a long action and that I will chamber to a 7 MM RSAUM or a 7MM WSM case. This is to be a rifle that I will carry while hunting. Sometimes I do a lot of walking and this one needs to be not overly heavy.

    Anyway my quest is to find a solution to seating long heavy 7MM bullets in a RSAUM or WSM case and still be able to stuff them in the mag well. Requires a long action.

    As I said above the Wyatt box isn't quite long enough. Thanks by the way for posting the drawings of the Wyatt box.

    So are you telling me that I could make a switch barrel rifle based in a REM700 long action with a barrel nut?

    I am trying to avoid having to have a smith headspace and install a new barrel. Looks like I could just order one and install it myself on the Savage action.

    What do you think?

    Doug
     
  9. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Doug,

    I figured if you has a 7mm Ultra, you could try the short mags in it to see if they feed. If you have the follower and spring still. If you have a solid block in there it might be hard to do though. [​IMG]

    Yes, you could use the savage barrel nut, but the receiver threads on the 700 are smaller would need to be opened up to 1-1/8" in order to use the threads designed for the Ultra and short mags is all.

    If you aren't chambering and threading these barrels yourself, why not have the smith that is chambering these barrels just headspace it to the action and lug you have? I don't think you're saving any money by having the nut on there to do it yourself, headspacing is done at the time it's chambered and shouldn't cost you anymore than a chamber job from Pac-Nor or whoever your favorite barrel maker. You will however pay extra for the barrel nut...

    Figure $400-500 for the new barrel and chamber on each one regaurdless.

    Once the smith does the first one and knows the depth to chamber it (your actions dim's)(make sure he records all of them), he can chamber the next barrels without having your action, just get it and screw it on, your done. Talk to a smith who does this. Montour, S1, etc maybe? ANY gunsmith should be able to do this for you. Use a good thick lug though!!

    You won't need to headspace this type off the cartridge each time you change barrels, just twist it on and tighten the barrel, it comes pre-headspaced, the Savage you will have to use the cartridge as the stop, then lock a nut (if it uses the barrel nut). You can set the Savage up with a pinned lug just the same though, and not use the nut. You'll use a barrel vice to tighten it instead. That's all I'm really tryin to convey.

    The advantage to the Savage is that you can swap to the smaller boltface without buying "another bolt" to have those smaller case head size chambered barrels headspaced with.

    Hope that helps. [​IMG]
     
  10. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brent. I was about sold on the Savage switch barrel idea. All my tools and extra stuff are for REM700s, bases, triggers, stocks, bolt tool, etc, so I have been trying to stay with the REM700.

    I'm about ready to sell the 7MM SAUM and my 22-250 VSSF to fund the new 7MM long action WSM rifle.

    Been thinking about calling HS Precision and seeing if they would chamber a 7MM long action WSM rifle for me. Do you think a 7MM WSM would work in the HS detachable magazine? Now that would be cool.

    Or maybe have someone build me one of those real cool tactical rigs for a carry rifle.

    Doug
     
  11. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Doug,
    Looked at the Savage today, 300 WSM and a 300 Ultra. The 300 Ultra fed the WSM ammo fine too, rails on the box are identical length, just that the Ultra has a longer loading/ejection port. Follower was slightly tapered on the Ultra, but still virtually the same.

    First thing I noticed, the cartridge doesn't get captured under the extractor like you think it should, has to do with a round edge on the extractor keeping it from slipping up under it, and it being spring loaded... hard to explain, but it just pushes it up in the chamber like the 700 does. It might be able to be modified though.

    Chris knows all about the HS mags, they are shorter than the AR30 mags, but should be plenty long for the WSM. If you want the longest box possible, the Wyatt extended box is it, not a drop box though, but might be best for the Ultra Mags with long OAL.

    Good luck with the project.
     
  12. flick

    flick Member

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    While you are at it, check Sharp Shooter Supply they sell barrels,bolt faces,well all the parts you need to convert a savage to most any cofiguration one can imagine.They do it only for and on Savages.