high value low cost optics, scopes binoculars, spotters ect.

[joe0121]

I have felt you're not getting much value with Leupy's for a while now. Surprisingly many seems to think they are high end scopes while I rate them at the middle of the pack. I guess that makes them German and Austrian scopes some sort of ultra high end exotic luxury items to the same people.

Vortex is awesome...

But you owe it to yourself to check out the SWFA SS and SWFA SSHD.

 

[Sami]

Vortex is awesome...

But you owe it to yourself to check out the SWFA SS and SWFA SSHD.

I have looked through them a few times when I have been at SWFA. They seemed decent but unfortunately it was still daylight outside so I didn't get the full picture.

 

[joe0121]

I have looked through them a few times when I have been at SWFA. They seemed decent but unfortunately it was still daylight outside so I didn't get the full picture.

I would put them equal with a MK4 for twilight. The HD model anyways. Never really looked through the normal one at dusk so I don't know. They track great and don't weigh 30 pounds like my NF. Still wouldn't trade my NF though. Unless it was for a USO SN3

 

[Sami]

I would put them equal with a MK4 for twilight. The HD model anyways. Never really looked through the normal one at dusk so I don't know. They track great and don't weigh 30 pounds like my NF. Still wouldn't trade my NF though. Unless it was for a USO SN3

How about a Hensoldt or S&B?

The only MK4's I have looked through were about equal with Nikon Monarch's. It wasn't a full test though so could be that one or the other would be slightly better. Not bad but nothing spectacular.

Are we off-topic again?

 

[overbo]

I see your Tasco as a short term value.When I was in my 20's,I too used Tasco's w/ sucess.
Down the road your Tasco will loose it's muti lense protecting coating,those thin rubber gaskets will fail and your todays crisp image willbe compromised.
Higher priced optics are built for MANY lifetimes not for the optics lifetime.

The biggest factor that determines a rifle scopes creditbility is ACCURACY.W/ a Tasco 6-24 variable scope.There willbe some point of impact change when adjusting from one variable power to another.Meaning,if you zero your rifle w/ the scope set at 24x.When you adjust to say 13x,the point of bullet impact willnot be EXACTLY the same as on 24x.
This factor along w/ many other variables that make optics like Zeiss,Leupold,Swarvor,ect,ect an investment.

 

[joe0121]

How about a Hensoldt or S&B?

The only MK4's I have looked through were about equal with Nikon Monarch's. It wasn't a full test though so could be that one or the other would be slightly better. Not bad but nothing spectacular.

Are we off-topic again?

I supose if someone just had to unload their SB I could be convinced to take it.


Never been around a S&B for any period of time, the one I did look through at a gas station sign was like looking at an HDTV. I just like the EREK knobs on the USO stuff. Never even seen a Hensoldt IRL im ashamed to say.

May be off topic but I enjoy building my E-rifle's.

I think a Savage .308 with ER Shaw 20" tactical and YMH Can and SWFA SSHD 10x42 Would make one hell of an F class shooter. In fact I'm building one now. Waiting on the stock.

 

[Sami]

Never been around a S&B for any period of time, the one I did look through at a gas station sign was like looking at an HDTV. I just like the EREK knobs on the USO stuff. Never even seen a Hensoldt IRL im ashamed to say.

Hensoldt is a tactical version of Zeiss Victory Diavari. Pretty much best glass money can buy. When I was last time at SWFA I was picking up my Victory Diavari 3-12x56 so when I say the SWFA's seemed decent, I do think that's a compliment considering the reference point.

I think a Savage .308 with ER Shaw 20" tactical and YMH Can and SWFA SSHD 10x42 Would make one hell of an F class shooter. In fact I'm building one now. Waiting on the stock.

YHM Phantom is supposed to go on the Shaw at some point. For this one I'm building my own laminate stock.

 

[joe0121]

Hensoldt is a tactical version of Zeiss Victory Diavari. Pretty much best glass money can buy. When I was last time at SWFA I was picking up my Victory Diavari 3-12x56 so when I say the SWFA's seemed decent, I do think that's a compliment considering the reference point.



YHM Phantom is supposed to go on the Shaw at some point. For this one I'm building my own laminate stock.

I really like the P-dog stock and I just had to have the AI mags being a tacti-cool build and all.

Next build is getting a laminent stock. Something stainles with a grey and black lamenant. Got my FIL a stock from stockade for his 10/22 and it looks so nice I have to have one now.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I was hoping that someone would find some humor in 'Leupyville and Vortex Village'...........

The Viper is a nice, quality optic IMO.

You are probably right. Compared to S&B or Swaro, L&S is middle of the road.

My low limit is no lower than a lifetime money back, fully transferrable guarantee. That makes the optic's resale value exponentially better.

My issue with that issue is, will the parent company or distributor be in business in 10 years??? Leupold & Stevens has been in business for at least as long as I am old.... 63 years.

For me, that eliminates the loss leaders entirely.

 

[Colcalcipherol]

Redfield

Twenty seven plus years ago my Dad gave me his .308 Remington Model 760 Sportsmaster which had a Redfield 2-7x scope on it. I checked the sites on it that day and it was a true zero at 100 yards. To this day I can say the same thing and I have NEVER adjusted anything on it. I have a 3-9x on my .270 Savage that I haven't adjusted since the day I installed it 15 years ago and I bought the thing at Wally World for around $200-250.

They don't have anything that interests me for long range but for standard hunting (up to 250), they have been awesome and cheap.

 

[1973cj5]

I have enjoyed reading through the many points of view that have been expessed in trying to answer the question posed at the beginning of this thread. I am 54 years old and enjoy hunting and target shooting. My eyes were once good but not anymore. So for my eyes, my hunting and target shooting skills, and time available for this hobby..... I have two products that I have purchased that have proven to be great quality for the price:

First, I purchased an Alpen 20x60x80 Model 788 spotting scope for $340 three years ago with free shipping. I just recently upgraded to a Pentax 80 ED-A spotter, but the Alpen will go to one of my four boys who I know have enjoyed the Alpen as much as I have. By the way, this spotter can still be bought for around the same price. I actually found one site that had the spotter for $329 with free shipping.

Two years ago, I took a gamble on a Hawke Sidewinder 30 3x12 variable rifle scope for $239 dollars. Again for my eyes, hunting skills, target shooting skills, and time available for this hobby, the quality of this scope for the price has been outstanding. I did have to send the scope back after one month because I felt the the windage turrent did not fully lock. The customer service was outstanding. I just recently upgraded to the Hawke Sidewinder 30 Tactical SH 6.5 - 20 x 42 $420 with free shipping. Again, the Sidewinder 30 will go to one of my boys for his enjoyment.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

For me the cost of a scope has to be worth it. The high end Zeiss, Swarofski, and S+B got a bad name in Alaska amongst guides because they were fragile. Yes, they were clear and crisp. But when the cross hair ends up in a pile in the bottom of the scope tube all you have is kind of an odd spotting scope. A Leupold VX II works Great in comparison. And it doesn't cost as much as chartering an Otter to fly you to where you will hunt.
It depends on what you can afford. But there are some things it is just stupid to waste money on. Like 3,000$ 8x binos. Thats just stupid.
Since 90+% of the people on this forum do their rifle shooting for entertainment. It probably, doesn't matter. But for those of us in a humble financial realm need to learn to take some peoples idea's and words with more than a grain of salt.

Some Scopes that may be worth their high dollar price tag are NightForce as they say that the scope has been tested to 80 below zero and they garentee that it works good. To me that is worth money. I don't know of any other under 2,000$ Scopes that work completely in 40 below or colder temps. I hunt in those temps so my scope should. But I still can't afford a NightForce. I'm hoping the Vortex Viper PST will work in the cold
I have been testing Scopes to see if they will fog from going from cold to hot and v,v .so for the Nikon ProStaff 4-12 is doing great. No fogging. But it doesn't like to change power at 30 below and colder but the reticule does adjust. I just have to work within it's limitations.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You don't have to worry about reticle drop out with a Vortex. The reticle is photo- chemically (I think) etched into the lens inside, actually I think thats the norm on just about every scope today.

I would pull the turret caps on the Vortex and wipe off the excess grease, not an issue here, but stiff, cold grease might be there. I'd replace the grease with a dab of light machine oil (for the 'O' rings.

All 3 of my Vipers track the box flawlessly and I can actually range with them though it's a PITA and a rangefinder is more accurate and easier, but in a pinch, it works.

I don't particularly like the high parallelax (side focus) turret. I had to mount my Holland level on the opposite side because the turret blocks my line of sight when looking through the objective, I like to check alignment while setting up on a target. Interestingly, it works just as well on the right for me.

Finally, all the Vortex scopes (Razor included) come with the chintzyist cap arrangement I've ever seen, something that would be expected with a Tru-Glo. 2 plastic caps, one amber, one clear held together with two elastic strings. Chuck it and get some Butler Creek caps or Leupold Alumina's, the Vortex caps are JUNK.

I believe my next foray into the world of lesser known scopes will be a Hawke. Wonder if they come with the chintzy cap setup??

 

[toddc]

Ill Say it Agian Please Stop Pushing the "best" scopes in this thread, We all know that stuff thats $800+ is great, Maybe Im just broke but I dont See $800 as a Low Cost High Quality Option, If you Find that $800 scope for $500 please tell us,
But I, and I think Most other people dont think Even $500 is a great low cost option. Especially since there Are cheaper options that are just as good. I can shoot 2.5 MOA with A factory 55gr AE FMJ BT out of a 16" bushmaster with a 1-9 twist, (using a Scope that normally costs $100 and I paid $75 for) If I can Hit A 18x18 plate repeatedly At 634yds with snow on the ground and 10-15mph wind After My rifle was bouncing Around In the back of a truck on the crappy dirt road for 45min, And the Only Corrections needed to re zero were because of Altitude and for the air density due to the temperature.
I think In those Conditions, that Range, With that Rifle, and that Load Putting 5 successive shots On that plate Is pretty **** good

PLEASE tell me what benefit I will get Out Of Replacing my Scope with One That Costs Twice As much As the Rifle It sits On? Will I shoot Better? Will I shoot Further? I think Id be better off Buying A National Match Trigger kit


Sami
There Really arent many places in the US where its legal to Night hunt and thats mainly just hogs. Anyway, unless You Spotlight which makes your target light up like at noon, Or you use Nightvision, dark is dark and a $2,700 Ziess Victory Diavari Full moon or not wont make you see in the dark, So specialized equipment Is Needed to hunt succesfully at night, and I added that Caveat "successfully" Because Without Equipment for night, Only under the most ideal conditions will you be able to operate, And with no artificial light that is 3ish days in a month (that's an optimistic number) provided there is no cloud cover and you are out in the open, And facing the moon. Im not saying its not possible, But you can catch a fish with a bare hook, though you'd be better off with a worm.

Scopes can only pick up on light that is there, so you are SOL without the stars aligning at the moment of your shot. Regardless Of the Price.
But You Are right the Ziess victory should have great light transmission but thats due to the big 56mm obj lens, but that doesnt make it see in the dark.
Scope light transmission is limited by the tube Dia and the OBJ lens its a choke point, So i dont care how "good" the glass is unless there is light going into the obj lens night is night.

So If you do spotlight, A scope that works during the day will be just as effective, And if You have a NV setup well your set.
I'm Sorry But Unless you have specialized night hunting Gear "NV" or a Spotlight
You are blind at night $3,000 dollar scope or not

I work a late shift so After I get Off or on my nights Off I go into the woods And Watch the animals, And unless the Conditions Are perfect and here in Washington I'm lucky to get one "perfect" night a month, Even then I have to use My NV monocular or the one on my Camera 95% of the time. And I have 20-15 vision, thats better than 20-20, So I know exactly what its like night "Hunting" I do it with a Camera And If A 67mm lens on an SLR has trouble seeing without IR, A rifle Scope sure as hell cant.

Sorry this got waaaaaaaaaay off topic.

But I got a good product for you guys My Father in Law Got A barska colorado spotting scope I think it is a 20-60x60 and it was $70ish And over new years we were using it for some target spotting, And scanning the mountains around his house for deer and sheep and it works pretty well. At max power you really need to adjust the focus alot when you scan, I could have been the extreme range but, It worked quite well. and it came with a hard case and a tripod, check it out.

I only made it this far and felt I had to post. Yes there is a ginourmous difference in night seeing between a diavari and a tasco. WOW. I can kill deer at night about 25 days of the month with a NF 3.5x15x50. I dont know about your cameras but in a rifle scope a good one will let you shoot in moonlight. A tasco will not.
Im all about value which is why I keep a couple NFs and the rest are vortex,but touting a $99 tasco for LR isnt making your point. Yeah they are fine for a 22 or a regular hunter but this is LRH.
You are talking about things you have no experience in. You say a diavari wont let you hunt at night while admitting you have never tried it while comparing it to a camera?
If you would like and will pay the fines and fees we can go test the night time shooting on some 190" deer on a wheatfield about 10 miles north of where I live.
I like the thread but a $99 sc ope on a LRH rig is ludicrous and caused you to lose credibility with me. Glass is what makes LRH possible. A peep sight is ok on a target at 1k.....deer not so much.