Helpful suggestions on shooting please

[bakercity]

I have a neighbor that is 70 + years of age. He has drawn an elk tag but is very prone to extreme flinching. We have tried him on 30-06 with decelerator pad and he just plain cannot shoot that caliber due to flinching. Can any of you make any other caliber suggestions for elk that may not be as much of an issue for this old gentleman. Thank you, Bakercity

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have a neighbor that is 70 + years of age. He has drawn an elk tag but is very prone to extreme flinching. We have tried him on 30-06 with decelerator pad and he just plain cannot shoot that caliber due to flinching. Can any of you make any other caliber suggestions for elk that may not be as much of an issue for this old gentleman. Thank you, Bakercity

25-06 with 115gr Partitions would be my minimum, but, a 270 with 130gr, 6.5x55 with 130gr, 260 Rem with same, 7-08 with 140gr or 284 with same.
There are plenty of choices with less recoil than a 30-06 that will put an Elk down, just some are better than others.
Unfortunately, curing a flinch quickly before a hunt takes some serious mind over matter, but I found a good technique by using a shooting pad made from sorbethane rubber, only allow the gentleman to shoot from a rested off-hand position, benching a rifle is the worst thing to do for a flinch.
Get some shooting sticks, or make some.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[Rich Coyle]

Also have him practice by dry firing.

 

[bakercity]

25-06 with 115gr Partitions would be my minimum, but, a 270 with 130gr, 6.5x55 with 130gr, 260 Rem with same, 7-08 with 140gr or 284 with same.
There are plenty of choices with less recoil than a 30-06 that will put an Elk down, just some are better than others.
Unfortunately, curing a flinch quickly before a hunt takes some serious mind over matter, but I found a good technique by using a shooting pad made from sorbethane rubber, only allow the gentleman to shoot from a rested off-hand position, benching a rifle is the worst thing to do for a flinch.
Get some shooting sticks, or make some.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.
gun)

Thank you for your suggestions!

 

[bakercity]

Also have him practice by dry firing.

Thank you for your input!

 

[kcebcj]

I think the 30-06 is about the bottom for power when hunting elk. My opinion and a argument for another day but it can be loaded down for practice.

I'm sure you understand flinching is a automatic subconscious reaction to perceived noise and recoil but can be controlled. Chances are he will flinch no matter how light the caliber is.

Does the recoil of the 06 hurt him? Like bad stock popping him in the cheek bone or bad arthritis and the recoil is painful? If that is the case the flinching will go on.

Now if there is no pain it's simply a mental thing and with a lot of practice he can overcome the flinching. A lot of dry firing will help to hold steady as the trigger breaks and a lot of time behind the rifle. You simply teach your subconscious not to react. I have watch this work with a young man that shot a 300 Weatherby without knowing what the result would be. The flinch that developed was huge but with guidance and time he worked through it and is a fine shot today with a 300 Win Mag.

Everyone has to control flinch and it is defiantly controllable!! I agree with MagnumManic above that to start have the fella shoot off hand or from his knees so that his body can move with the recoil so less is felt. Good luck!!

 

[rcoody]

I think the 30-06 is about the bottom for power when hunting elk. My opinion and a argument for another day but it can be loaded down for practice.

I'm sure you understand flinching is a automatic subconscious reaction to perceived noise and recoil but can be controlled. Chances are he will flinch no matter how light the caliber is.

Does the recoil of the 06 hurt him? Like bad stock popping him in the cheek bone or bad arthritis and the recoil is painful? If that is the case the flinching will go on.

Now if there is no pain it's simply a mental thing and with a lot of practice he can overcome the flinching. A lot of dry firing will help to hold steady as the trigger breaks and a lot of time behind the rifle. You simply teach your subconscious not to react. I have watch this work with a young man that shot a 300 Weatherby without knowing what the result would be. The flinch that developed was huge but with guidance and time he worked through it and is a fine shot today with a 300 Win Mag.

Everyone has to control flinch and it is defiantly controllable!! I agree with MagnumManic above that to start have the fella shoot off hand or from his knees so that his body can move with the recoil so less is felt. Good luck!!

he needs to practice with a gun with little or no recoil. 6mm or less. Even practicing with a scoped .22 lr would be a plus. He needs to work on the fundamentals. Sight picture, trigger squeeze and consistent hold. During it excitement of the hunt he won't even notice the recoil.

He doesn't need to shoot any heavy recoiling gun until sight in for the hunt.

 

[Barrelnut]

I agree with all of the above.

Additionally, it can be helpful to see the magnitude of the flinch so it can be seen by the shooter and corrected. There is an old trick of having someone other than the shooter load a single round each time. Sometimes the loader will place a round in the chamber and other times not. This way the shooter has no way of knowing if the rifle will recoil or not. The flinch is very obvious when he pulls the trigger on an empty chamber. This practice can help the shooter overcome the flinch.

Also as above, make sure there are no physical pain issues and starting with a smaller caliber and working up will also help a lot. A heaver rifle recoils less and the fit of the rifle to the shooter matters too.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

Plenty of calibers with less recoil than the 30-06, but before looking for a different rifle, check the fit of the one he's using. If the length of pull is too short, if the cheek weld is to low (most are without an add-on or adjustable check riser), if the comb is slanted down to the rear, the rifle is too light weight for its energy output, poor form shooting positions- any of these make recoil feel worse. Brakes reduce recoil, but redirect noise and can make poor hearing protection downright agony. Pads like Limbsaver, recoil reducers like DeadMule, adding weight to the gun (find places to add lead shot), comb parallel to bore, full eye relief between scope and face, doubling up on ear-pro all improve shooter comfort. Have him practice with something lower powered, including dry-firing drills (two man deal: you cock the rifle, he shoots. Sometimes you load live round, sometimes not) can help get him over the hump. The primary thing is teaching him that shooting isn't supposed to hurt. And when done right, it doesn't.​

 

[FearNoWind]

There are several reasons for flinching, one is anticipation of recoil, the other is anticipation of noise; sometimes it's both. Before you can work on a solution you've got to identify the issue you're dealing with. In any case, dry firing normally proves effective - depending on how deeply engrained the flinch reflex is. It can sometimes take quite a while to overcome the problem.
I'd suggest letting him dry fire for a while until he gets a fair amount of good control. Then load ball and dummy so he doesn't know when the rifle's firing pin is falling on a live round or an empty chamber. Use good ear protection and make sure the rifle isn't too heavy for him to h old in whatever position is chosen for training. Holding an .06 at your shoulder for very long is difficult enough when you're young.
One of my early pistol competition trainers would lay a penny on the front sight of my .45 auto and load ball and dummy. If I flinched the penny fell off and I got a swift kick in the rear. That worked very well. Probably a bit severe for an old guy trying to become a better hunter though.

 

[harleybug]

You can install a muzzle break. On a 30-06 a break should make it a breeze to shoot. I definately would not go with a smaller caliber for elk.

 

[bakercity]

I think the 30-06 is about the bottom for power when hunting elk. My opinion and a argument for another day but it can be loaded down for practice.

I'm sure you understand flinching is a automatic subconscious reaction to perceived noise and recoil but can be controlled. Chances are he will flinch no matter how light the caliber is.

Does the recoil of the 06 hurt him? Like bad stock popping him in the cheek bone or bad arthritis and the recoil is painful? If that is the case the flinching will go on.

Now if there is no pain it's simply a mental thing and with a lot of practice he can overcome the flinching. A lot of dry firing will help to hold steady as the trigger breaks and a lot of time behind the rifle. You simply teach your subconscious not to react. I have watch this work with a young man that shot a 300 Weatherby without knowing what the result would be. The flinch that developed was huge but with guidance and time he worked through it and is a fine shot today with a 300 Win Mag.

Everyone has to control flinch and it is defiantly controllable!! I agree with MagnumManic above that to start have the fella shoot off hand or from his knees so that his body can move with the recoil so less is felt. Good luck!!

Thanks for your response and logic. I sure hope you have the picture of you & horse framed and on the wall. What a great memory. Bakercity

 

[Rich Coyle]

You can install a muzzle break. On a 30-06 a break should make it a breeze to shoot. I definately would not go with a smaller caliber for elk.

I used to work with a guy whose dad gave him a .30-06. He fired it five times and figured he was finished for the rest of his life with that rifle. I asked if I could borrow it and reduce the recoil and have the trigger adjusted. When he got it back he shot the rest of the box of shell and said he was ready to buy some more ammo. brakes work!

 

[Barrelnut]

brakes work!

They can also cause instant and permanent deafness. Just be aware of that and consider the situations the rifle will be used in the field.