Help With Heavy Bolt Lift on Mauser Action

[Texas Speed Bump]

I'm out of my element here and need some help. I'm getting ready to do some load development with 85g Hammers for my 6.5x06 and want to make sure I'm getting the most accuracy I can in the process. This is an old custom-made rifle with a Mauser action and heavy Douglas barrel. I don't know that this rifle has ever had a light bolt lift as long as I've owned it. It shoots great and the only cartridge that's ever been shot through this rifle in the past 50 years has been 120gr Nosler BTs driven by 54gr IMR-4350 with an average 3,135 fps velocity. My cases are made from 25-06 brass (although I've never actually made any of the brass myself). I always full length resize.

I've checked my case length and even shortened one down well under the maximum just to make sure that wasn't it. When I drop a resized case in the chamber, the bolt is very stiff to close on it and equally stiff to lift. When I attempt to measure the distance from the bottom of the base (just above the extractor groove to the bottom of the shoulder or the top of the shoulder, it seems long compared to what the book says it should be. What are the things that cause this phenomenon on rifles with this type action? Is there something else I should be doing in the re-sizing phase that bumps this neck down a bit? Thanks.

 

[Laguna Freak]

You Mauser may not be having the same experience, but my 23 year old Steyr Pro Hunter 30-06 (4 lug bolt) always has heavy bolt lift after pulling the trigger. Even after dry firing. Sometimes its a little heavy to close, shooting .002" headspaced handloads. This old rifle holds 1" groups at 300 yd so I don't worry about heavy bolt with it. I assume it has something to do with Steyr's chambers passing pressure tests to 120,000 psi. Btw, I think Steyr quit publishing that info 10+ years ago.

 

[dogz]

brass that has only....been used in this gun correct?

 

[Black Hat]

It sound like you need a more reliable and accurate way of correctly measuring the shoulder bump!

I didn't have the fancy gear for years, and just kept bumping a case till it fitted with slight resistance, it's a good idea to take the bolt apart (remove extractor plunger) to do this if you can also, gives you a better feel.

 

[Hugnot]

Possibly, your brass does not have enough head space. You might consider grinding down the top of the shell holder used for that one rifle and use that shortened shell holder to bump back the shoulder of the brass. Use appropriate cautions not to create excessive head space. Full length size ammo. Trim brass to spec.

The Mauser probably is of the M98 type that is a controlled feed action. This means the rounds must be fed from the magazine to enable the extractor groove on the brass to fit inside the non rotating extractor. By droppng a round into the chamber & closing the bolt the non-rotating extractor is forced over the rim of the cartridge causing much resistance. On miltitary issue M98's it is impossible or difficult to close the bolt on a round not fed from the magazine. The military M98's are usually loaded using a stripper clip. Single loads are done by placing a round in the magazine on top of the follower. Complete firing pin spring compression is done upon bolt closing - added resistance.

Upon inspecting the Mauser bolt, a transferse slot may be seen on the left side bolt lug. This is provided to allow the ejector mounted on the left side of the rear of the action to contact the base of the fired or unfired round as the bolt is retracted. A bolt stop is included with the ejector assembly on the left rear side of the receiver. There is no plunger in a M98 type bolt face - just an extractor slot.

Periodic bolt stripping is a real good idea for inspection, cleaning, and testing for ammo chamber fit. For an unaltered M98 the safety is placed in the upright postion , the bolt lock on the left side of the bolt shroud depressed & the threaded bolt turned out with the shroud, cocking piece, firing pin & spring from the bolt body. For an altered M98 type used with a left side safety, for a low mounted scope, bolt dissasembly requires retracting the cocking piece and blocking the cocking piece from the back of the bolt shround. I use a dime (coin). Attached to a fixture on my bench is a rebar wire loop that I use to pull on bottom of the cocking piece and when the cocking piece is pulled back far enough the dime is shoved between cocking piece & bolt shroud. The bolt catch is depressed & the dime, shroud, firing pin, spring, and cocking piece can be turned out from the bolt body. Re-assembly requires pulling back on the cocking piece to allow rotation and repositioning the bolt body with the cocking piece and removal of the dime.

Ammo/chamber fit may be testedUsing the stripped bolt. Give all parts a real good cleaning including the inside of the bolt.

The 6.5-06 is a "wild cat" cartridge and may not be completely in spec with standard .25-06, .270W & .30-06 ammo being chambered by an independent gunsmith that decided on minimum head space for crush fit fire forming. My several 6,5-06's including a M98 type are chambered for minimum head space specs. I use a separate shortened shell holder for each rifle.

I use the same dime to disassemble Rem 700 bolts by shoving the dime in a slot machined in the left side of the cocking piece to allow cocking piece to be held apart from bolt body so firing pin assembly may be turned out of bolt body.

M98's represent a remarkable achievement in rifle design

 

[Texas Speed Bump]

brass that has only....been used in this gun correct?

Yes, this is the only rifle the brass has been used in. I actually had it lock up on a spent case a couple of years ago and needed a gunsmith to free it. Chalked that up to a bad case that hadn't been sized right (most all the hunting ammo I shoot is old and was loaded by my father in law who gave me the rifle 40+ years ago. It's a tack driver...put one right between the eyes of a sow at 295 yards a couple years ago.

 

[Texas Speed Bump]

Possibly, your brass does not have enough head space. You might consider grinding down the top of the shell holder used for that one rifle and use that shortened shell holder to bump back the shoulder of the brass. Use appropriate cautions not to create excessive head space. Full length size ammo. Trim brass to spec.

The Mauser probably is of the M98 type that is a controlled feed action. This means the rounds must be fed from the magazine to enable the extractor groove on the brass to fit inside the non rotating extractor. By droppng a round into the chamber & closing the bolt the non-rotating extractor is forced over the rim of the cartridge causing much resistance. On miltitary issue M98's it is impossible or difficult to close the bolt on a round not fed from the magazine. The military M98's are usually loaded using a stripper clip. Single loads are done by placing a round in the magazine on top of the follower. Complete firing pin spring compression is done upon bolt closing - added resistance.

Upon inspecting the Mauser bolt, a transferse slot may be seen on the left side bolt lug. This is provided to allow the ejector mounted on the left side of the rear of the action to contact the base of the fired or unfired round as the bolt is retracted. A bolt stop is included with the ejector assembly on the left rear side of the receiver. There is no plunger in a M98 type bolt face - just an extractor slot.

Periodic bolt stripping is a real good idea for inspection, cleaning, and testing for ammo chamber fit. For an unaltered M98 the safety is placed in the upright postion , the bolt lock on the left side of the bolt shroud depressed & the threaded bolt turned out with the shroud, cocking piece, firing pin & spring from the bolt body. For an altered M98 type used with a left side safety, for a low mounted scope, bolt dissasembly requires retracting the cocking piece and blocking the cocking piece from the back of the bolt shround. I use a dime (coin). Attached to a fixture on my bench is a rebar wire loop that I use to pull on bottom of the cocking piece and when the cocking piece is pulled back far enough the dime is shoved between cocking piece & bolt shroud. The bolt catch is depressed & the dime, shroud, firing pin, spring, and cocking piece can be turned out from the bolt body. Re-assembly requires pulling back on the cocking piece to allow rotation and repositioning the bolt body with the cocking piece and removal of the dime.

Ammo/chamber fit may be testedUsing the stripped bolt. Give all parts a real good cleaning including the inside of the bolt.

The 6.5-06 is a "wild cat" cartridge and may not be completely in spec with standard .25-06, .270W & .30-06 ammo being chambered by an independent gunsmith that decided on minimum head space for crush fit fire forming. My several 6,5-06's including a M98 type are chambered for minimum head space specs. I use a separate shortened shell holder for each rifle.

I use the same dime to disassemble Rem 700 bolts by shoving the dime in a slot machined in the left side of the cocking piece to allow cocking piece to be held apart from bolt body so firing pin assembly may be turned out of bolt body.

M98's represent a remarkable achievement in rifle design

Wow, I came to the right place. I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mauser actions. I've never attempted to disassemble the bolt and doubt it ever has been. I think it may well be that, and your headspace comments. I also was unaware of the difference between chambering a round from the magazine and dropping one in through the top. The mag on this rifle is sealed shut (not sure how or why, but it always has been) and I push 3 or 4 down into the mag through the top and chamber a round from there.

After reading your reply, I pulled the rifle out of the safe chambered a round the way I normally do when hunting with it (fed from the mag) and it was noticeably easier then when I dropped the empty, resized case directly into the chamber. Still a long way from being able to do a 'bolt drop' test on a case though.

 

[Texas Speed Bump]

Wow, I came to the right place. I'm impressed with your knowledge of Mauser actions. I've never attempted to disassemble the bolt and doubt it ever has been. I think it may well be that, and your headspace comments. I also was unaware of the difference between chambering a round from the magazine and dropping one in through the top. The mag on this rifle is sealed shut (not sure how or why, but it always has been) and I push 3 or 4 down into the mag through the top and chamber a round from there.

After reading your reply, I pulled the rifle out of the safe chambered a round the way I normally do when hunting with it (fed from the mag) and it was noticeably easier then when I dropped the empty, resized case directly into the chamber. Still a long way from being able to do a 'bolt drop' test on a case though.

Here's a couple of pics

 

[Hugnot]

Very nice - looks like a FN Mauser - proofs on upper bolt handle - a real prize.

Sounds like a complete inspection of bolt is needed. I clean & lube bolt innards with Hornady One Shot Lube & Cleaner. If used on eastern front conditions super sub freezing cold could gum up stuff.

A "drop bolt test" might work on stripped bolt with round placed with bras extractor groove under extractor but mouth of case would probably hit end of barrel.

The plunger fixture on the left side of the bolt shroud, when depressed will allow the firing pin and shroud to be turned out from the bolt body when cocking piece is blocked from contacting bolt body. Your rifle has a trigger type safety.



This is an older type FN Mauser having the old M98 bolt shroud with a low scope safety mounted on bolt. 6.5-06, 500 meter targets, Leupold 4.5-14X40 M4.

 

[Texas Speed Bump]

Very nice - looks like a FN Mauser - proofs on upper bolt handle - a real prize.

Sounds like a complete inspection of bolt is needed. I clean & lube bolt innards with Hornady One Shot Lube & Cleaner. If used on eastern front conditions super sub freezing cold could gum up stuff.

A "drop bolt test" might work on stripped bolt with round placed with bras extractor groove under extractor but mouth of case would probably hit end of barrel.

The plunger fixture on the left side of the bolt shroud, when depressed will allow the firing pin and shroud to be turned out from the bolt body when cocking piece is blocked from contacting bolt body. Your rifle has a trigger type safety.

View attachment 377844

This is an older type FN Mauser having the old M98 bolt shroud with a low scope safety mounted on bolt. 6.5-06, 500 meter targets, Leupold 4.5-14X40 M4.

Nice. That's a Leupold on mine as well. VX-6HD 3-18x. I wanted to put the 4-24x like I have on my Creed and 7.62 but couldn't find 34mm rings to fit those bases. Tried a two piece base set but the rings wouldn't line up properly for some reason so I put the 3-18x back on.

 

[Hugnot]

Some pics to describe situation



Observe the feature on the front of the firing pin - this prevents contact between firing pin & primer if bolt is not completely closed.
Observe the slot in the right side of the cocking piece - this enables the rifle to be recocked without opening bolt by hooking rim of cartridge in slot & pulling back to recock.

The 98's were my very first training rifles by folks that used them on our side in WWII.

 

[cape cove]

Just an observation but would your claw extractor be bent from not loading from the magazine. Maybe this could also contribute to a stiff bolt .

 

[Hugnot]

Just an observation but would your claw extractor be bent from not loading from the magazine. Maybe this could also contribute to a stiff bolt .

Never seen it but I suppose it could happen - like obstruct the bolt from turning.

 

[cape cove]

@Hugnot I know it's a long shot but easy to check.