Has anybody tried the 200 grain Berger Hybrid in 308 Win?

[Michael Eichele]

I am going to be trying out some 200 Hybrids tomorrow but was curious as the whether or not anybody else tried them. I'll be running H4350 in the Palma case. I can get 2750 out of the 190 VLD with large rifle 215 match magnum primers. I only get 2700 with the 205M but the 205M in the Palma case gives me single digit extreme spreads so I might stick with it. If I can get 2600-2650 I'd be happy. At 2600 it's the same windage as the highly esteemed 260 rem/140 vld combo. If I'm getting 2700 out of the 190, I'm sure I can get 2600 out if the 200. With almost identical BCs as the 210vld and 100'sec more velocity, and 10 grains less recoil, it makes sense to me IF they'll shoot good from my rig.

Anyway, if anybody has tried them, can you please share your results?

M

 

[MudRunner2005]

I was thinking about trying a few in my .30-06 AI, but it has a 1:12 twist...And those are for 1:11 or faster. The 190 VLD's are about the biggest Bergers I can run according to a twist chart, but I have a theory that I want to see if testing it works. It's that you can make up for an 1" of twist rate with extra velocity...

Not sure if it will work at virtually sea level, but we'll see.

 

[etisll40]

I'd like to see your results if you shoot them.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

I have a theory that I want to see if testing it works.

From this page:
GS CUSTOM BULLETS - Twist Rates and Bullet Length

"At a muzzle velocity of 1600fps and a barrel twist rate of 1:10", the stability factor (Sg) is 1.25.

An increase in muzzle velocity results in an increase of the Sg and, going from a muzzle velocity of 1600fps to 3600fps, results in an increase of the Sg to 1.34.

A difference in twist rate of half an inch, up or down, will influence the Sg as follows: At a twist rate of 1:10.5" and at a muzzle velocity of 3600fps, the Sg is 1.215. At a twist rate of 1:10" the Sg is 1.339.

So, increasing the twist from 1:10.5" to 1:10", increases the Sg by 0.124 and has a greater effect on the Sg than an increase of muzzle velocity from 1600fps to 3600fps. It is quite clear that a twist/bullet length mismatch cannot be fixed by adjusting the speed. A 2000fps increase in speed has less value than a half inch difference in twist rate."

 

[etisll40]

I'll bet this starts to show up as the bullet gets further on in distance right. As it stabilizes?

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'll bet this starts to show up as the bullet gets further on in distance right. As it stabilizes?

Most likely, just like anything else with ballistics and stability.

Just just know what my 210 Bergers are supposed to be for 1:11 or faster, but my 11.25" twist rifle puts them into virtually the same hole, and as the velocity increased with ladder testing, the accuracy did, too.

Which is why I have my theory that it MIGHT work. I'm just gonna have to give it a try to find out.

There's other guys out there shooting 210 VLD's in 1:12 twists, but they are at much higher altitudes than I am. I will just have to try them to find out for myself.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I had a good day at the range today with the 200 grain Hybrids. Using H4350 and 205M primers in the Palma case, 46.5 grains showed 2544 FPS. .36 MOA at 300 yards.

47.0 showed 2581 FPS. Also .35 MOA at 300 yards.

47.5 Showed 2628 FPS. .61 MOA at 300 yards.

48.0 showed 2636 FPS. .4 MOA at 300 yards.

All had ZERO pressure signs. No cratered primers, no flat primers, no ejector marks and the extraction feels like there is no case in the chamber. Super easy bolt lift and pulls right out.

I then fired 3 Hybrid 215s. 46.5 H4350. Zero pressure signs. 2550 was the velocity. Accuracy wasn't as good as the 200s. .796 MOA. I might try them at 47.0, 47.5 and 48 to see what happens. Maybe play with seating depth a bit.

I could gain another 50 FPS with the large rifle cases and 215M mag primers. Just not sure what it would do to the ridiculously low ESs these loads are giving me. As good as things are shooting, I will most likely leave it alone.

As far as the 215 Hybrid, at 2550 FPS, it delivers over 1000 foot pounds of energy a 1000 yards. And that's at sea level in 78% humidity, 29.92" Hg., and 59 degrees F. If you told me 2 years ago, or one year ago for that matter that it was possible for any 308 Win to deliver 1000 foot pounds in standard air at a grand, I would have flat out called you a liar. As much as love the cartridge, I never thought it would be possible. At least not with loads that don't show pressure. The windage is almost identical to the highly esteemed 6.5x284 running 140 VLDs at 2950 FPS. The 6.5 has the advantage by 4.3" in a full value 10MPH wind at 1K. The 260 Rem can't touch it. The good thing here is barrel life and 200 foot pounds more energy. The 6.5 can kiss my ar$$!

 

[etisll40]

Michael, how sensitive is the OAL on the 200 Hybrids? What's yours? Also, putting targets aside, what is the expansion like at 1000?

 

[gilmillan1]

What are the specs of your rifle?

 

[Michael Eichele]

Michael, how sensitive is the OAL on the 200 Hybrids? What's yours? Also, putting targets aside, what is the expansion like at 1000?

I don't know how sensitive they are to depth. I've only shot them at one length. I've only been to the range once with them. I actually haven't measured the COAL without the use of the comparator. With my comparator they are 3.270". They do fit the wayatt box so they're under 2.990". I've not tested the expansion yet but plan to in the next couple of weeks. I know the 215s do great but don't know about the 200s.

From a hunting standpoint, the numbers with the 208 amax are amost identical so if the 200s don't expand I will fall back on the 208 since the do expand nicely. From a match standpoint, they have slighly less recoil than the 208 so they make a lot of sense when I'm shooting F-T/R.

 

[Michael Eichele]

What are the specs of your rifle?

Rem 700 SA SS. Wyatt box. Badger bolt knob
Bartlein 5R 28" SS
McMillan A5 McMillan camo
Jewel trigger 8oz.
NF one peice base
NF UL rings
Leupold Mark4 16x M1 (sometimes wears an NF 5.5-22x50)
USO level