Hammer bullet for short range bear hunting

[memtb]

I switched to Barnes copper bullets when they came out because I saw a bunch of sparkles in the wound channel on a deer. I didn't need to use ignorant prejudice to switch. I am convinced those who continue to use lead core bullets use prejudice, not ignorant prejudice to continue their direction. Just last week someone showed me an x-ray of an animal killed with the old fashion bullets. It confirmed what I saw decades ago.

Rich, I've never been very concerned about lead consumption…..perhaps it's too late now! I went to Barnes Bullets in the early '90's …..simply because I thought as a overall, all around use bullet, it was superior to cup and cores…..even the well respected, and proven Partition! I have zero regrets with my transition! memtb

 

[Calvin45]

Rich, I've never been very concerned about lead consumption…..perhaps it's too late now! I went to Barnes Bullets in the early '90's …..simply because I thought as a overall, all around use bullet, it was superior to cup and cores…..even the well respected, and proven Partition! I have zero regrets with my transition! memtb

I got some of the original X bullets, no grooves, for my 243 for CHEAP on an auction a while ago. If the internet is to be believed they won't hit the broadside of a barn, will immediately foul my barrel beyond recognition, and will make a 6mm entry and exit with no expansion.

I suspect once I get them up and running they'll be the first bullet my kids shoot out of a hunting rifle and take game with should they grow to love hunting. 75 grainers, and I was cleaning the tips after treating the bullets with HBN and applying too much lateral pressure with a dental pick CAUSED ONE TO BEGIN OPENING, four clearly defined lines running down the nose and the meplat starting to flower. zero expansion…yeah right. These things appear to be designed to expand with less energy than a dang soft point for crying out loud.

I've treated them as I said with hbn. That tremendously mitigates barrel copper fouling with any bullet.

They are flat base with decent bearing surface, very conducive to easy accuracy even out of my old savage 99…not high bc but this will be a 300 yards and under (probably 200 and under) whitetail bullet and cartridge/rifle setup that won't intimidate or punish my kids when they're gangly 11 year olds haha

I have very high hopes for
This bullet (and the lot of 300 of them that I got for like 60 bucks should last!)

 

[Calvin45]

This to say I love copper bullets in some applications…but it's got nothing to do with lead concerns at this point. Lightweight monos going very fast at ordinary hunting ranges have a poleaxe effect that heavier soft bullets going slower don't as a rule.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Holy smokes. That says it all right there!

Thank you.

 

[Rich Coyle]

It says some things…doesn't say it all haha. Not being contentious either but the concern about lead in game meat is overblown…as @chav0_12 noted in a different thread, birds do indeed exhibit a far greater sensitivity to lead as a toxin hence the banning of lead shot and lead ammunition in condor territory. (The bottom feeders were munching up lead pellets from the bottom of ponds and being rendered infertile)

I think I am reading a contradiction. One says no problem from ingesting lead. The other says animals become infertile and even die. Which is it?

 

[Calvin45]

I think I am reading a contradiction. One says no problem from ingesting lead. The other says animals become infertile and even die. Which is it?

Birds and mammals are different classes of critter. And even within mammals we ain't the same haha. Lord knows my dog has eaten things that would make me very sick or possibly dead and got away with it no problem. What I've read is that our stomach acid is nowhere near as potent As a birds (and I do believe condors and vultures have the strongest acid on earth…it's how they can get away with eating rotting festering putrid filth and not get sick, acid that kills any bacteria and breaks down most biologically created toxins)

Our stomach acid doesn't readily break elemental lead down into something that's bio-active (and the fact that elemental lead itself isn't really that bioactive is why you hear of people with shot bbs, bullets and bullet fragments INSIDE OF THEM not die of lead poisoning if it can't be removed) - many birds have stomach acid that is strong enough to do this

Moreover I'm not saying lead isn't toxic, there's a reason they don't use it to seal tinned food anymore haha…

But the Romans had lead pipes and vessels for their water infrastructure and weren't wiped out by that or rendered infertile. People survive with lead in their body from surviving being shot. And there is absolutely zero evidence that people who eat more game shot with lead over a lifetime have ANY higher incidence of lead toxicity. Elemental lead in solid form isn't all that sinister for human exposure.

Chemicals that contain lead are another story as are lead vapours (indoor shooting ranges do actually concern me for this reason)

I'm all for copper bullets but it's becuas of their performance, not their safety.

 

[Calvin45]

Moreover the bans on lead ammo for hunting is always explicitly stated to be about protecting birds.

Bears, wolves, coyotes, etc…. Don't seem to suffer any adverse effects from ingesting "leaded" gut piles or we'd know about that by now

 

[memtb]

I got some of the original X bullets, no grooves, for my 243 for CHEAP on an auction a while ago. If the internet is to be believed they won't hit the broadside of a barn, will immediately foul my barrel beyond recognition, and will make a 6mm entry and exit with no expansion.

I suspect once I get them up and running they'll be the first bullet my kids shoot out of a hunting rifle and take game with should they grow to love hunting. 75 grainers, and I was cleaning the tips after treating the bullets with HBN and applying too much lateral pressure with a dental pick CAUSED ONE TO BEGIN OPENING, four clearly defined lines running down the nose and the meplat starting to flower. zero expansion…yeah right. These things appear to be designed to expand with less energy than a dang soft point for crying out loud.

I've treated them as I said with hbn. That tremendously mitigates barrel copper fouling with any bullet.

They are flat base with decent bearing surface, very conducive to easy accuracy even out of my old savage 99…not high bc but this will be a 300 yards and under (probably 200 and under) whitetail bullet and cartridge/rifle setup that won't intimidate or punish my kids when they're gangly 11 year olds haha

I have very high hopes for
This bullet (and the lot of 300 of them that I got for like 60 bucks should last!)

Calvin, this my findings and my opinion with the origin X Bullet……so take that for what's worth!

I was told early on, to treat them as though you were going to shoot cast bullets. Thouroughly clean your bore of any and all previous bullet fouling. Supposedly, the previous fouling magnified the fouling from the Barnes. Also a rough bore substantially increased the fouling.

My rifle had a match grade barrel and I never experienced the fouling or the excessive pressure that many people reported. I had a friend that had a brand new Remington SS 25-06. He wanted to use Barnes, but his groups were closer to a poor shot pattern from a shot gun. It took some convin ing on my part to get him to hand lap/polish his bore . Once done his groups were a huge improvement…..but still nothing to write home about.

He only got to hunt elk one season before having to get a family hardship job transfer. He got a shot on a trotting bull through an Aspen Grove at about 80 yards or so. One shot, behind the shoulder, complete with the typical Barnes exit. The elk went just a little ways and piled up! While only a 5x5….easily the biggest bodied elk that I've seen in my 37+ years in Wyoming. When I went to his house to see his elk…. It was the size of a small horse lying on his garage floor!

As a side note: he also recovered a 130 grain (just guessing) .270 cal. cup & core bullet, fully expanded, and having shed most of it's mass….apparently it didn't kill the elk! And before asked…..I don know exactly where he found the "expired" bullet! memtb

 

[memtb]

Quote from Calvin: Elemental lead in solid form isn't all that sinister for human exposure.

Exactly, I've been carrying a .177 pellet in my lung for 60 years…..caused by youthful indiscretion! As of yet…..no apparent harm. In fact, I was a pretty decent runner…..with some decent marathons under my belt! memtb

 

[Calvin45]

Quote from Calvin: Elemental lead in solid form isn't all that sinister for human exposure.

Exactly, I've been carrying a .177 pellet in my lung for 60 years…..caused by youthful indiscretion! As of yet…..no apparent harm. In fact, I was a pretty decent runner…..with some decent marathons under my belt! memtb

I have an uncle who had a steel bb removed from under the skin near his eye, years after it entered his head! Nothing to do with lead but crazy, they all assumed it had just bounced off after breaking the skin. Nope. Embedded in his scalp and then somehow worked it's way down to his face under the surface over time.

Idiots playing tag with BB guns as teenagers.

 

[nralifer]

They're filled with lead.

Sorry to disappoint you but just about any all copper bullet of the same weight is superior to the partition. Old mostly inaccurate low BC design. Relies on the COPPER partition to keep the shank from disintegrating.

 

[Calvin45]

Sorry to disappoint you but just about any all copper bullet of the same weight is superior to the partition. Old mostly inaccurate low BC design. Relies on the COPPER partition to keep the shank from disintegrating.

I suggest you read the rest of the thread…he's saying this as a negative thing….

 

[Calvin45]

Sorry to disappoint you but just about any all copper bullet of the same weight is superior to the partition. Old mostly inaccurate low BC design. Relies on the COPPER partition to keep the shank from disintegrating

Moreover "superior" might apply to weight retention and penetration. That's not all there is to terminal ballistics as far as I'm concerned.

 

[nralifer]

Quote from Calvin: Elemental lead in solid form isn't all that sinister for human exposure.

Exactly, I've been carrying a .177 pellet in my lung for 60 years…..caused by youthful indiscretion! As of yet…..no apparent harm. In fact, I was a pretty decent runner…..with some decent marathons under my belt! memtb

That pellet is surrounded by a capsule of scar. When you eat lead it is subjected to the digestive effects of the GI tract and absorption is increased. Children are more susceptible to lead absorption and toxicity than adults. Read about it. Search toxicity of lead shot ingestion.