H1000- 28 NOS

[Nevrsummr]

Been loading 77gr h1000 w/ 177 gr hammers for a year now and get great groups. Aprox 1/4 ". However the ES is not great. Best is about 25 ES. Hornady brass. One thing ive noticed is the case fill is very low, i would guess around 80% but well below the neck. I cant run more h1000 as im already 1.5gr under pressure signs. Should i try a different powder? N570 and retumbo both seem to have similar characteristics as h1000 so i dont expect the fill would change much.

 

[Dmagna]

First thing I would do is get rid of the junk hornaday brass then work a new load. I wouldn't waste anymore time with that brass. Once you get something decent Then rework an OCW and find something that is better. Your speed is slow, once you get new brass work a new load.

 

[Kmccord]

N570 or RL33 will get you more velocity, in my 28 Nosler RL33 was the most accurate for cup and core bullets, but RL33 is dirty and temp insensitive. I would definitely give 570 a try and see if that reduces your ES.

 

[North Idaho Hunter]

What does the paper/groups say at distance? If your holding that kind of accuracy at distance I wouldnt change a thing!

 

[QuietTexan]

However the ES is not great. Best is about 25 ES. Hornady brass.

TL;DR - agree 100% with ^^^^^ this right above me. Shoot that load at however far you think your max is, if it holds together forget about the statistics and run it.

Long version:

First, 25 ES isn't not necessarily bad because ultimately ES will approach and exceed 6x SD. In a three shot group it's distressing, but if you shot a 10-shot group and showed SD 10, ES 60 that represents a solid handload. If you shot 10-shot a SD 5, ES 30 group that's exceptional. ES is primarily a negative confirmation tool in that you can use it to rule out bad loads, but can't use it to confirm good loads because the potential range of "good" answers is pretty wide and SD provides more detailed information on what a load should do.

3-shot 30 ES that papers the way yours does isn't bad at all. It could be a 100 ES and if it hits one hole at 100 yards, and you're going to shoot at 100 yards (or shoot a group at 300 yards and if the group works at 300 yards same concept), who the heck cares what the ES if they hit the same hole/ shoot the right size? Now if you want to shoot that load at 1k yards, then maybe tightening up a 100 ES would be worth the time because you're pushing more more into predictive statistics then. You'd want to reduce all the variances that you can so you don't have to shoot 500 rounds to decide that your vertical variance is FPS related and not seating or tuning or something else.

Secondly, how many loads on the brass. The numbers can creep as brass ages through multiple firings. Again not necessarily bad if the paper shows a good result.

Thirdly, yes get new brass if you want to get the best possible numbers. Hit reset, start new, do all the brass preps steps you can, and see what comes out of that.

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"The true extreme spread of a population is about 6 times the standard deviation," explains Engleman. That is thanks to the power of a normal distribution, which we talked about in the last article. In a normal distribution, we know 99.9% of our shots will be within 3 SD (3 times the SD) from our average velocity. That means our slowest shot would be 3 times our SD below the average, and the fastest shot would be 3 times our SD above the average – and the difference between the min and the max would be very close to 6 times our SD. So, in our example where our SD is 9.6 fps, we should expect our ES to eventually grow to 58 fps if we continued to fire shots (9.6 fps SD x 6 = 57.6 fps ES). How many shots would it take before measured ES got to 58 fps? Who knows! It might take 100+ rounds, but we also might luck into that spread in a different 20-shot string. But, by 1,000 shots our data would take the shape of a normal distribution and our ES would likely land near 60 fps, yet our SD would very likely remain between 8 and 13 fps. This illustrates why SD is a more reliable statistical indicator of variation.

 

[wasskeet]

In this podcast, I remember hearing the Gunwerks guys saying how 25ES was about what they were getting in the 28 Nosler gearing up for an ELR match. I'd expect them to get better myself ?

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[Nevrsummr]

Really appreciate the advice and the links. I did find some adg brass and have been working up loads for 155 hammers. Shot today with a 4 shot es of 10. Still a lot of case capacity left with h1000 at 83 gr. I am going to try n570 instead. Hopefully to gain velocity and tighter ES Trying not to get too carried away and waste barrel life though. The 177 load shoots good and kills animals. Im on 3rd round with the hornady brass btw.

 

[wasskeet]

Hopefully to gain velocity and tighter ES Trying not to get too carried away and waste barrel life though.

Seems that is a lot of people's concern with the 28 Nosler - getting to the best/most accurate load without giving away barrel life. Not to mention keeping it there. Nevertheless, I'll probably have to try one sometime myself

 

[Kmccord]

Have you verified if you have a donut in the case neck? Not sure if you are having to seat them into the shoulder. However, your group size is dang good at 100, I would do what others suggest and shoot it out to 600yds and see if you are still at .50 MOA.

 

[Huntnful]

I wouldn't full with it, for the sole purpose of lowering your ES honestly. But depending on your barrel length you are giving up a decent amount of velocity. I shoot N570 with 169 HH's at 3250 and get about 30 ES on a long shot string. It still shoots about .6 MOA at 700 yards.

With N570 I had the 177's at 3200. But I'd be content with 20 ES all day. That's like 2" variance up or down at 1000 yards

 

[257Tony]

I use a similar load in my 28, but with 180 Bergers. Same speed as you, same single hole accuracy, with Hornady brass. Holds sub minute out as far as I have tested it. Kills Elk deader than dead.

Used to use Nosler brass, with RL33. Got 3200 fps easily, but, very dirty, and no good above 80 degrees ambient.

 

[slikmrc]

Couple of things to try is weight sort your brass and try a different primer. H1000 has been very tunable in rifles I've tried it in.

 

[Beluebow]

I hate to be the negative guy, but here goes.....Based on the shape of that group (straight vertical) and the ES, I would be very skeptical of it holding together at long range. I think you could go up in powder charge and bring that vertical down and possible decrease the ES numbers. I don't base anything solely on numbers, but at some point they become important. If it shoots good at distance on paper and repeats it's good regardless of the numbers IMO.

 

[Calvin45]

No 28nosler experience…no one on here yet has mentioned imr enduron 8133. It might be what you want. Hodgdons load data shows it being a top performer along with h869 ball powder. It's slower in burn rate than h1000.