Full Length or Neck Only; What's Best Resizing for Accuracy?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Bart B, Jan 10, 2020.


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  1. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    You're right. It was bigedp51 who posted it.
     
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  2. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    Full Length or Neck Only; What's Best Resizing for Accuracy?
    The perfect posting for Bart B to post about dixie cups and pat himself on the back.

    The problem there is so many variations in the type cartridges, their chambers and reloading dies to say only the case shoulder centers the bullet in the chamber.

    And the major reason why you were such a "big hit" at accurateshooter.com. :rolleyes: It was unbelievable that you told so many competitive shooters in that forum with custom made rifles and years of shooting experience that they were all wrong.
     
  3. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    We get it. You don’t like Bart. Ok, let’s press. AS isn’t the end all be all site. A lot of great stuff but I left for a reason too. Bart has had some good stuff to say. He doesn’t need me to defend him, but you attack him every post and bring AS into it
     
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  4. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    Good job, Bart B is look for disciples and people to kiss his ring. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Orange Dust

    Orange Dust Well-Known Member

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    I agree with him too, to a point though. We are a different bunch over here. Aggregates mean nothing. We need 100 %confidence in a cold bore with a usually literally cold shooter. We also need the same confidence in a follow up shot. Most of us shoot really big overbore magnums that are very different to load for than a 6.5 x 47 and in my opinion more difficult. Our ammo also has to work in all conditions, weather, and temperatures. Pretty tall order, and there are a bunch of guys here who are very good at it that i have unquestionable respect for. They have earned it by telling me stuff that i tried and worked, or i already knew to be true. Welcome Bart, share what you know to be true from personal experience, dump the heresay and you will make friends quickly here.
     
  6. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Seriously??? :) Come on 51. Kiss his ring? You mentioned AS and how he is looked down on multiple times. If you have a personal issue, PM the guy. We want to learn the best ways to do things for LR hunting here. Orange Dust is right that we are a bit different here since we aren't on a bench with a 70lb rifle. I want to hear your experiences just like I want to hear Bart's experiences. That's how we are going to get better. Have a good night
     
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  7. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    As I stated before SAAMI chamber drawings are guidelines only.
    And someone thinks he knows more than German Salazar. :rolleyes:
    https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../printthread/Board/29/main/770279/type/thread

    Re: 30-06 Serengeti Reamer by PT&G - 05/04/16
    "The freebore isn't super long. It's tighter diameter wise than typical factory stuff, .3085". German Salazar used it as a match reamer."

    [​IMG]

    "a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway.

    In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling."

    The Rifleman's Journal
    Germán A. Salazar
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 2:17 AM
  8. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Good write up. Thanks. I didn’t know saami was simply a guideline. I thought of it more as a liability cushion for gunsmiths and ammo makers. The headspace range always amazed me considering we all fight for a specific .001 or less, they give us a whopping .010” range.
     
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  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    What prevents Salazar's 30-06 cartridge from moving forward from the firing pin's force as it starts denting the primer?
     
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  10. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    That's not the question, the real question what centers the bullet in German Salazar's chamber?

    The case shoulder or the tight .00025 clearance on each side of the bullet.

    The bullet was centered before the case shoulder contacted the shoulder of the chamber.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Where does he say the bullet was seated out far enough to touch the throat lands when the round was chambered?
     
  12. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    Bart B is bobbing and weaving..............................

    Can't you read German Salazar's chamber print?
     
  13. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    ,
    No, I cannot. The chambered cartridge shape is not shown where the bullet ogive touches the throat.

    Even if it did and there was a couple thousandths clearance from the case shoulder to the chamber shoulder, wouldn't a 25+ pound firing pin spring pushing a 2+ ounce pin 18 fps drive the case hard into the chamber shoulder seating the bullet that much deeper when or before the primer fired?

    If the case neck and bullet was centered on the case shoulder, that'll center the bullet regardless of clearance tolerance. Otherwise, it won't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 2:52 PM
  14. bigedp51

    bigedp51 Well-Known Member

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    Bart B is bobbing and weaving "again"!

    How about a European CIP 30-06 chamber drawing.

    Click on the image to enlarge

    [​IMG]

    "a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway.

    In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling."

    The Rifleman's Journal
    Germán A. Salazar