F Class Rifle

[GoatHerder]

I'm in the process of deciding what components that will be used in my new f class rifle. Before I waste time and money, I thought I would run it by you guys and ask for your thoughts. I'm 90% sure I want to go with a 7mm rsaum. But, that isn't set in stone.

Action: Panda short action ( f class) right bolt left port with 20 MOA pica tinny rail

Barrel: Brux #11 straight blank 1 in 8 twist 32 inches long

Stock: Manners (MCS- F Cass Stock)

Trigger: Jewell

Scope: Nightforce 15 x 55 x 52

Brass: Norma

Bullet: Berger 195 gr.

I hope I didn't leave anything out. I welcome your thoughts and thanks in advance.


Goatherder

 

[Schnyd112]

Gotta love that SAUM. I will have one, some day.

If you are sending 60 rounds for an fclass match, it may be a little rough by the end. You can shoot a .284 or a shehane to within 200 fps of a SAUM with 180's and have 10 grains less powder to deal with for 60 rounds.

I have never shot one that many times in a row, but I would hazard to guess they get pretty warm sending 195's at 3000 fps. If you are trying to play the wind and need to break off 15 during a lull, it may start to walk on you.

These are the reasons I haven't turned my comp gun into a SAUM. Ymmv.

 

[ATH]

Faced with the same decision this spring, I went with the same action but a 32" Bartlein barrel chambered in 284Win twisted for the 183 Sierra (1:7.5 IIRC). Additional recoil aside, I had no desire to deal with obtaining RSAUM or WSM brass. 6.5-284 Lapua brass is high quality, easy to find, and easy to neck up and turn for consistency.

I also went with a Jewell. McMillan F-class stock, Vortex Golden Eagle scope (up to 60X).

When I can shoot the wind as well as all the High Master guys shooting straight 284s, I'll question my choice on chambering.

 

[BUSTINDOGS]

Straight .284 with the 180's gets my vote you can neck up lapua brass and it has proven it self. You will need a bigger case to take advantage of the 195. The 284 maybe boring but it seems to work. I don't shot in any competitive anything except against myself. But until you take on a larger case and figure out how to handle the recoil I think the .284 win will dominate the 7mm bore size in anything other than one shot kills. I shoot the 195 and it's amazing at bucking the wind but you got to get it going fast enough before it over throws the 180's.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I picked the low road entry.

2 of them too be exact.

Both of my builds are dual purpose built.

Remington 700 LR in 308 improved / 30/06 to be real.
Lapua Brass, ELD-X 178, Sightron scope 6-24x50 fine wire / dot.
Jewel trigger, Henery Remple F Class bypod rest.
9 lb weigth gain for Open F Class.
$2800 Cnd funds or $1900 ish Usd.
My weight system takes 10 seconds to take on and off.
My trigger set-up has the thumb safety so I can use the rifle for game harvest and predator control all winter long.
Leopold 10 MOA rail so I can attach my second back-up BDC range dot scope for long distance of 100 too 600 meters when in harvest mode.

Second is a Remington SPS Varmint heavy barrel in 308 with Jewel trigger, Harrison BR Bypod with fast clamp 7 lb weigth.
It will have the Nikon 6-20x56 mill retrical range system so I can leave this scope on full time.

My back up Barrels are soon too be on order from Bob Jury 27 1/2" and 1 long Cheery Wood F Class stock for the short action as its for the FTR category.

It too will be a harvest rifle in the off season. $2400 Cnd funds or $1600 Usd.

My units have too be all season since it allows me the chance too shoot the barrels off them every year.

Find a solid bunny ear back bag, find your bulk supplier too buy your 2 too 3 year supply of powder, bullets and primers.

Just get it done since you won't be waisting your time look for this stuff later on,,, always keep your 2 year inventory ahead of the game plan.

It will be your best $3 too $4000 investment that will save you time and fuel mileage looking for ammo when you should be out shooting all the time.

Western Canada Don

 

[sable tireur]

Respectfully (and I'm using smilies to show some sense of humor...),

In order to understand the real relationship between performance and cartridge cases one really should do some simple math.

#1- You don't have to shoot the heaviest bullet in a class in order to compete.
#2- You can shoot a larger capacity cartridge case with a lighter bullet, having a slightly lesser BC than the heavier bullet and still win on all fronts.

Example:

Your .284 Win/Shehane + 195 EOL (3.3" OAL) + 32" barrel + 21 lb rifle = 2800 fps.
1,000 yards = 1722 fps/1284 ftlbs/ 233" drop/ 47.8" drift. (sighted @ 300 yards)
10.12 ft-lbs of energy in recoil

My 7mmRSAUM + 150 Warner FL. (2.976" OAL) + 32" barrel + 21 lb rifle = 3250 fps.
1,000 yards = 2017 fps/1355 ftlbs/169.5" drop/40.8" drift. (sighted @300 yards)
9.63 ft-lbs of energy in recoil

My trajectory is flatter, my retained velocity is higher, 5 FEET less drop, 7" less drift and less recoil to boot.

Now I'm sure someone can come along and juggle some more numbers to offset this, and that's fine, but I shoot this in the real world. I have no need for the 195 gr. EOL unless I select a much bigger cartridge which it is designed for, not the little .284 Win.

Regards.

 

[Schnyd112]

There is no argument that the SAUM has better ballistics. The issue comes when you need to shoot it 60 times in a day without a muzzle device. even further, as stated before, you may need to shoot Long string of rounds quickly if you get favorable conditions.

Maybe not a big deal some places, but where I shoot things can change in a second. On blustery day, if you are in the 10/x ring, you shoot until conditions change. My .260 will handle 12-15 rounds, on a normal day, as fast as I can go without punishing me and without getting wild. Can you say the same for your SAUM?

I must restate, I will own a 7 SAUM; but it will most likely not be a competition rifle.

 

[sable tireur]

You failed to read the information that I posted. The reason for writing all those numbers was to illustrate that the RSAUM has LESS recoil than the .284 Win. given the parameters of the bullets being fired.

Not only can I fire long strings given the powder choice but the recoil is less than most cartridges touted as being milder. Therein lies the reasoning for the choice. I can shoot under the trajectories of many of the heavier for caliber 'super bullets' like the 195 gr. EOL with less recoil. When it comes to wind, you and your .260 can't compete, simple math and execution.

The only addendum necessary is that, as in all cases, it is usually the Indian and not the arrow.

Have a great evening!

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

You have to compare apples to apples. Of course a 150 will recoil less than a 195. I don't own either but I can tell you that's not exactly a fair comparison. Especially when we're talking about a Warner FL bullet!

 

[Schnyd112]

You failed to read the information that I posted. The reason for writing all those numbers was to illustrate that the RSAUM has LESS recoil than the .284 Win. given the parameters of the bullets being fired.

Not only can I fire long strings given the powder choice but the recoil is less than most cartridges touted as being milder. Therein lies the reasoning for the choice. I can shoot under the trajectories of many of the heavier for caliber 'super bullets' like the 195 gr. EOL with less recoil. When it comes to wind, you and your .260 can't compete, simple math and execution.

The only addendum necessary is that, as in all cases, it is usually the Indian and not the arrow.

Have a great evening!

I was comparing your SAUM to a straight .284 shooting a 180. you can argue semantics but the fact remains the same. F-class winners are not shooting the high capacity cases.

You don't need huge ballistic advantages to compete. You need to know your rifle and be able to read the conditions. Me and My measly .260 seem to do just fine.

 

[sable tireur]

Action: Panda short action ( f class) right bolt left port with 20 MOA pica tinny rail

Barrel: Brux #11 straight blank 1 in 8 twist 32 inches long

Stock: Manners (MCS- F Cass Stock)

Trigger: Jewell

Scope: Nightforce 15 x 55 x 52

Brass: Norma

Bullet: Berger 195 gr.

I hope I didn't leave anything out. I welcome your thoughts and thanks in advance.


Goatherder

To the Original Poster; I apologize for the distraction from your question. I think your choice of the 7mm RSAUM is a good one. I do not agree with the bullet choice as debated above. I believe that there are better, lighter bullets which will minimize the recoil yet perform better ballistically. Whatever choices you make, enjoy the process and the experiences!

You have to compare apples to apples. Of course a 150 will recoil less than a 195. I don't own either but I can tell you that's not exactly a fair comparison. Especially when we're talking about a Warner FL bullet!

There is no argument that the SAUM has better ballistics. The issue comes when you need to shoot it 60 times in a day without a muzzle device. even further, as stated before, you may need to shoot Long string of rounds quickly if you get favorable conditions.

Maybe not a big deal some places, but where I shoot things can change in a second. On blustery day, if you are in the 10/x ring, you shoot until conditions change. My .260 will handle 12-15 rounds, on a normal day, as fast as I can go without punishing me and without getting wild. Can you say the same for your SAUM?

This is really going nowhere. I'm not trying to be contentious at all but there is a reason to consider alternatives to what is accepted as 'de rigueur'. Unless we try alternatives and experiment, how do we ever learn anything?

I don't have to compare apples to apples when the statement is, that recoil is the issue with just the cartridge without taking into consideration the load or whether you're using a 180 VLD or the 195 EOL. I gave an example of lesser recoil applied to better ballistics and NOT having to shoot a bullet which is too heavy for that .284 case. There is no rule against the Warner FL bullets. However, you can and should believe whatever you choose and I truly support that.

I see that Shiraz Balolia, the 3-time winner of the Canadian F-Class Nationals (2014, 2015, 2016), feels the same way since he has shot the .300 WSM for all three championships.

I choose to use a cartridge with a slightly larger capacity and lighter, ballistically better bullet which yields a better solution in my opinion. I also choose not to run a cartridge which has been selected by a majority of the competition (.284 Win.) because I don't feel the need to run with the crowd. I like to experiment, try new things. The same is true when I shoot point blank, the 6PPC is farthest from my mind when the decision is made as to which cartridge to shoot. I may not run with the herd but I enjoy the competition and I love to learn new things. Best of all, I meet old and new friends every time!

Best regards.

 

[ohiohunter]

Sable, how does the barrel life compare?

 

[sable tireur]

Sable, how does the barrel life compare?

I'm not sure I can answer that as directly as with the other information. It's been a while since I shot a competition barrel out of an accuracy node with just one cartridge/bullet combination. I'm usually trying different cartridges, bullets and powders to get information, so attempting to make a clear statement as to exactly how many rounds a particular barrel may last with a given cartridge, powder and bullet is difficult at best.

With the .284 Win. and the 180 VLD, I'm more likely to load a slightly hotter powder such as MRP in order to gain any advantage from velocity that I can. Given the heat generated by this powder, the barrel life is shorter than if I reversed the action and used something along the lines of VVN-160 which burns significantly cooler, but with less velocity, yielding longer barrel life. Bear in mind that if I was to commit to one cartridge, bullet and powder in one barrel, I am not opposed to shooting that barrel out in one season, no matter what the round count ends up being. I would hate for the barrel to go south in the middle of a season, that's bad ju-ju. Barrels fall under the umbrella of perishable tooling. They have a finite life and I expect to replace them. Other folks like to make them last as long as possible. Their choice, of course.

With the 7mm RSAUM and the lighter bullets, the powders available for use are about 7 depending on the velocity range I expect, roughly 1/2 and 1/2 cooler to hotter. Mostly though I've been running this combination at the top node for accuracy and velocity. The barrel life, unfortunately, will be relatively short, probably just short of 1,000 rounds. But because I switch off rifles, it will get me through this season and part of the winter unless I just plain remove the barrel and go another direction.

Regards.

 

[ATH]

With the 7mm RSAUM and the lighter bullets, the powders available for use are about 7 depending on the velocity range I expect, roughly 1/2 and 1/2 cooler to hotter. Mostly though I've been running this combination at the top node for accuracy and velocity. The barrel life, unfortunately, will be relatively short, probably just short of 1,000 rounds. But because I switch off rifles, it will get me through this season and part of the winter unless I just plain remove the barrel and go another direction.

Regards.

Yes barrels are consumables, but that right there is a deal killer for me on an F-class rig. Rebarreling every season and constantly chasing the lands, no thanks.