Evaluating group's/accuracy?

[Lonewolf74]

Ok I've been spending a few weeks developing some loads for my 243 win. The rifle is a Ruger American predator that I did a few minor things to. I epoxied the stock to stiffen it up, opened the barrel chanel up to make sure the stock wouldn't touch the barrel and put a good brake on the muzzle mainly to stop muzzle clime. Now I was pretty impressed with the accuracy of this rifle shooting a lot of 3/4" groups with factory ammo.

The thing that is getting me is in my load development I get a lot of "slight" fliers, and the flier is pretty consistently high and right by 1/2-3/4". So a typical group will have 2 shots touching or practically in the same hole then 1 shot a 1/4" right and 1/2" high of the other 2. This seems to happen with a lot of different charges and 2 different powders I've tried with the 75 gr hrndy v-max. Now I don't seem to get this with the 105 gr vld load I developed usually a pretty tight little triangle though it seems the groups could maybe pattern towered doing the same thing just to a lesser degree. I haven't shot the load enough to really test it.

So my question; is this flier probably in my load or could it be me? Or could it be in my rifle possibly being sensitive to heat by the third shot? Though I do take 1-3 mins in between shots.

Any input, help or advice is appreciated

 

[243winxb]

Take 100 new brass. Do Benchrest prep of brass. Sort in lots of 3/10 gr. Load using FL bushing die. Shoot 5 shot groups

 

[gohring3006]

Run it over a Chrony to get a idea what the loads are doing.
Do a seating depth test.
Still have the problem, try a different primer.

 

[brentc]

What's your load? Have you done a seating depth test?

 

[BountyHunter]

Wait, are you saying you have a factory ruger sporter barrel that is shooting 3/4" groups and you think something is wrong?

What are you expecting?

Ruger is using hammer forged barrels that will never be the quality of a button or cut rifled, especially if the tool rifle mandrel is not kept clean or is worn. Then you get into proper heat treating and stress relief.

FWIW, the barrel and twist might not like the 75 grain, where as the 105 is the bullet.

Try the 87 AMAX if you really must.

However, IMO you are reaching the point where you are not going to get much more except spend a lot of time and money and burning the barrel out for maybe unrealistic expectations.

 

[gohring3006]

I had one of those in 6.5 a Creedmoor. It shot amazing with 130 hybrids. But it didn't do much better than what you are getting until I bedded it in a Boyds stock.
One thing you can check for is, loosen and tighten the action screws one at a time while holding on to the front of the forearm tip and barrel and feel the movement.

 

[300 Driver]

First thing I'd recommend is to shoot a 5 shot group. You may find that .75 moa I your avg group size or you may confirm your flier suspicions. Then, shoot over a chrony. You'll never know it's not you until you do.
I know some may disagree, but I've never seen a 243 win that wouldn't shoot .5 moa if the right bullet was used. Given the 1:9 twist of your rifle, I'd recommend the 85-90 gr projectiles. That's where you're going to find the best stability.

 

[Lonewolf74]

The loads I've tried so far is 47-49 grains in .5 grain increments of superformance. The same with varget from 37-38.5 grains. Bullet is 75 gr hrndy v-max, hrndy brass and CCI large rifle primer. Bullet seated to touching lands. I keep headspace and seating depth within .002 but I don't sort my brass by weight. I am planning on testing seating depth once I have a charge that's giving me pretty good results.

With the 105 bergers I'm using 45.5 grains of RL 25, touching lands CCI primers. This load is performing pretty good, on average it's a little less than 1/2" group though even with these I seem to have 2 pretty much in the same hole and 1 just a tad high right, maybe 1/4" from the other 2. Not that I'm gonna complain about that at all cus it's a tight group regardless? it just seems I'm starting to see a pattern with the rifle shooting 2 tight and 1 high right.

 

[300 Driver]

Shoot 5, not 3. if you get 4 in one hole and 1 high and right, it's you.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Thanks for the help guy's I am gonna make up 5 of each charge that shot decent and see where I'm at from there.

I should say that I don't know if it's necessarily always the 3rd shot that prints high right. I don't always look too see where each shot landed if the shot felt good and especially when I'm focused on inspecting brass for pressure signs.

I also just yesterday read the article about focus and parrelax. There is a chance this is causing some of my problem. I notice using the lead sled that sometimes after a shot my cross hairs are sitting low on the target. I always wondered about this cus I understand the rifle is gonna jump some and I'll have to correct side to side but the up-down shouldn't move. So it may be I'm not holding and looking the exact same way especially with the sled cus it's not as easy to get my natural hold using it. So if my parrelax isn't properly set it may make it appear the cross hairs moved down if I'm understanding the article correctly?

I got a bit more testing to do and either way I have to believe the accuracy potential of the rifle is there with consistently putting 2 shots on top of each other. The rest gotta be me or my loads.

 

[Buckskinner]

First off - you have to live in the real world of accuracy not in the internets world. It is a lot easier to have a 1/2 moa rifle on a rifle forum than in the real world... I am always amazed how many 1/4" rifles and benchrest quality shooters there are in the world! I'm not trying to pee on anyone here, I know there are many quality shooters on this forum that are in a different stratosphere than I am...

Secondly - your cheek weld/hold is extremely important, might be your issue.

Sounds like you have a shooter, don't expect custom gun results. You might get them, but there is a reason people drop all that cash on the customizing.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Shoot 5, not 3. if you get 4 in one hole and 1 high and right, it's you.

Yep that's my problem when I do 5 shot groups. I used to do 3 shot groups but not anymore. After shooting some 5 shot groups I always pull the 4th shot and the 5th shot goes back in the ragged hole with the first 3. I trained myself to do only 3 shot groups so I think that's why my flyer is always the 4th. What I do now is do 3 shot groups to find one that shows promise then all 5 shot after that.

 

[tbrice23]

Thanks for the help guy's I am gonna make up 5 of each charge that shot decent and see where I'm at from there.

I should say that I don't know if it's necessarily always the 3rd shot that prints high right. I don't always look too see where each shot landed if the shot felt good and especially when I'm focused on inspecting brass for pressure signs.

I also just yesterday read the article about focus and parrelax. There is a chance this is causing some of my problem. I notice using the lead sled that sometimes after a shot my cross hairs are sitting low on the target. I always wondered about this cus I understand the rifle is gonna jump some and I'll have to correct side to side but the up-down shouldn't move. So it may be I'm not holding and looking the exact same way especially with the sled cus it's not as easy to get my natural hold using it. So if my parrelax isn't properly set it may make it appear the cross hairs moved down if I'm understanding the article correctly?

I got a bit more testing to do and either way I have to believe the accuracy potential of the rifle is there with consistently putting 2 shots on top of each other. The rest gotta be me or my loads.

Throw that Lead sled away and learn to shoot on your own .
You need develop a natural point of aim and learn to feel how the rifle wants to be shot.

 

[gohring3006]

NEVER do a load work up with a sled. I agree with tbrice. Don't use it, the rifle will have different harmonics when it's used compared to when you use the rifle in the field.