ELD-X and 308 testing
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MagTen
Well-Known Member
I have not shot the 180 grain AB but here is a 165 grain and an AMAX. I have never gotten a "pretty" mushroom on an AB. Shooting it at a lower speed representing impacts at 300 yards may be different. I'll try that.gun)
I finally received today a supply of Hornady .308 178 grain ELD-X bullets. The purpose for this testing is to show long distance performance of three different slugs. Hornady ELD-X .308 178 grain, Hornady .308 168 grain AMAX, Nosler .308 165 grain (Hunting) BTs. All were shot using IMR 4895. Only one was shot at full power @ 42.5 grains @ 2647 FPS. Other three were @ 30 grains @ 1800-2000 FPS simulating a long distance shot at 300-400 yards. This testing DID reveal a few surprises.
AMAX copper did fly apart but lead held together and penetrated into 8th. JUG. Deepest of all.
ELD-X @ full power penetrated the least @ 5 jugs. Although it did make the absolute biggest upset of the first 4 jugs. Awesome wound channel.
ELD-X @ slow power did hold together and penetrated 7 jugs.
Ballistic Tip @ slow power did give SAME results as ELD-X. This was the biggest surprise. Be aware that this particular comparison does not say that the BT will outperform the higher BC - ELD-X at 500-600 yards. But at 300-400 yards the BT is comparable to ELD-X mushroom.
I added this photo to show my particular gun shoots the best with IMR-4320 with the 168 gr. AMAX. I have not grouped the new ELD-X 178 grain with 4320. I will put these two slugs head to head in the coming weeks. If you look real close the ELD-X and AMAX look almost the same but the AMAX has a smaller plastic tip and smaller hollow point it fits in.
Ummm Hornady what happened to the " Interlock " holding the core and jacket together ?
MagTen
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarification. To me, I much prefer the way the AB looks to either the ELDX or the Amax, at least in this test. I have not shot any of them on actual game, so maybe results may vary, I don't know.
But I just bought 2 boxes of the ELDX's, so I hope this water test is not representative, because that's not really what I wanted to see. The ballistic gellatin tests looked a lot better, but marketing is involved here, so who knows.
I know Hornady said they did not bond the jackets like their interbonds due to accuracy demands, but I think they should have, and let the ELDM's go without bonding.
Again, though, will be hoping to see some in field results on game. I really am hoping it does better than the above pictures, as the 200 grainers I have on hand seem otherwise just what I was looking for, and I'd hate to waste all the load development time and money and have to move on to something else.
But I just bought 2 boxes of the ELDX's, so I hope this water test is not representative, because that's not really what I wanted to see. The ballistic gellatin tests looked a lot better, but marketing is involved here, so who knows.
I know Hornady said they did not bond the jackets like their interbonds due to accuracy demands, but I think they should have, and let the ELDM's go without bonding.
Again, though, will be hoping to see some in field results on game. I really am hoping it does better than the above pictures, as the 200 grainers I have on hand seem otherwise just what I was looking for, and I'd hate to waste all the load development time and money and have to move on to something else.
ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
You have to remember though that water is very destructive on bullets. Possibly even more destructive than soft tissue. It doesn't take much velocity to make water very hard. I once thought I was going to rinse my hand over the side of the boat while doing 23 mph. It literally felt like I smacked a piece of wood. My fingers even got tingly. Water is very dense. Soft tissue does have air spaces and such.
Yeah, I had read that water was really tough on bullets. That's why I still hold out some hope, but then again, it's also why I wanted to see how it compared to the accubond. Was hoping they would appear somewhat similar, but no luck. Looks more like an Amax. Which might be fine, I have never hunted with Amax's...nothing but paper and steel.
Still, I hope to see much better on game. It certainly looked better in gelatin, so maybe it will work out. But basically, I want a hole in and a hole out, jelly in between. Don't mind weight loss as long as I get a decent, but not too horribly violent, exit.
Not sure what I am going to see here. I will say that in my limited experience with SST's...got a lot of damage on whitetails...lots of bloodshot meat. On interlocks, very inconsistent...sometimes a pencil exit, sometimes a perfect 50 cent exit, sometimes no exitt.
When I talked to the guys at Hornady, they told me ELDX's would be similar to the interbond in performance. Never used one of those, but tests in gelatin I saw in, I think Precision Rifle, looked pretty good.
Anyway, hope to see some additional tests and really do hope they work out. The way I am loading these, they should match up, wind drift and drop wise, near identical to the 143 ELDX that I hope to shoot out of my Tikka that I use as a trainer. It shoots well with 140 Amax's, so I am cautiously hopeful the ELDX's will do just as well.
Taken directly from Hornady
"At conventional range (0-400 yards), the ELD-X bullet is designed to continually expand throughout its penetration path. Upon impact the thin nose section of the bullet peels back and sheds material until it reaches the thick shank of the bullet jacket where the InterLock ring works to keep the core and jacket together. The remaining heavy shank of the bullet continues to drive forward and expand for extremely lethal results."
I searched and found some images of the Hornady interlocks and they stay together better than that 178 gr ELD-X. The ELD-X almost looks like that Sierra bullet on the left in pic 1.
The bottom pic is what the ELD-X should look like. I'm surprised it actually came apart.
Hopefully we'll see more images of recovered bullets in the near future. If they wont stay together I'll stick with the Accubonds.
"At conventional range (0-400 yards), the ELD-X bullet is designed to continually expand throughout its penetration path. Upon impact the thin nose section of the bullet peels back and sheds material until it reaches the thick shank of the bullet jacket where the InterLock ring works to keep the core and jacket together. The remaining heavy shank of the bullet continues to drive forward and expand for extremely lethal results."
I searched and found some images of the Hornady interlocks and they stay together better than that 178 gr ELD-X. The ELD-X almost looks like that Sierra bullet on the left in pic 1.
The bottom pic is what the ELD-X should look like. I'm surprised it actually came apart.
Hopefully we'll see more images of recovered bullets in the near future. If they wont stay together I'll stick with the Accubonds.
Yeah, the bottom picture looks pretty great, I'd be really happy with that. I'm going to be pushing those 200's at modest velocity, so maybe they will do okay. But like you, I am really wanting to see some track record before I invest in too much work and money in these as these admittedly initial results don't look too exciting to me.
I shoot the 180 AB's in my 308 currently and after seeing the 100-350 yd terminal performance, don't have any valid reason to consider anything else. If they made a bullet that performed the same at 100yds and 600yds, I'd unwrinkle my forehead. Until then, I just keep loading game into the back of the truck. The AB's do QUITE a number on northern size deer.
MagTen
Well-Known Member
I will be testing 308 168 ABs next week. I chronyed 8 different loads from 2200fps to 1100fps. Will shoot same loads into jugs at that time. Will show results to 850 yards.gun)
I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut, you will love the AB's. My predictions are you will like them more at the dope'd down FPS (long range equivalences), but they still have real world applications at less than long range hunting ranges (100-200yds). At closer ranges I compare them to a soft point, exit holes comensarate with bullet diameter, or close. But at longer ranges, at least I've found, they act like a ballistic tip with EXTREME penetration. Look forward to your results!
ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
200 grn ELD X
I loaded a few more to test in my Mosin Nagant sporter. The first few groups I loaded at different jumps and grains that I suspected may shoot well. The best group was around 1.25 - 1.5" (didn't measure). But the groups were tightening as I changed things. I decided to try jamming as that does well in this rifle with other bullets. I also dropped another .5 in powder charge. This group was 48.5 grains of IMR 4350 and .015" jam. This group measured .6". So I'll load some more like this to test. With some tuning it may do better. 174grn SMK shoot .3"-.4" in this rifle. This ELD X has a higher BC and is a hunting bullet. So I'll feel better shooting it at game.
I loaded a few more to test in my Mosin Nagant sporter. The first few groups I loaded at different jumps and grains that I suspected may shoot well. The best group was around 1.25 - 1.5" (didn't measure). But the groups were tightening as I changed things. I decided to try jamming as that does well in this rifle with other bullets. I also dropped another .5 in powder charge. This group was 48.5 grains of IMR 4350 and .015" jam. This group measured .6". So I'll load some more like this to test. With some tuning it may do better. 174grn SMK shoot .3"-.4" in this rifle. This ELD X has a higher BC and is a hunting bullet. So I'll feel better shooting it at game.
