Effective Range 7mm-08 & 6.5 CM

[LVJ76]

Its always gonna baffle me.....this being a "long range hunting forum" I contually see short range hunting comments and people not knowing the correlation between FPS and FPE.

for example hornady data for say the 162 ELDM states you need at least 1800 FPS for the bullet to perform correctly. It's assumed a person is going to run their ballistics program and in my case for a 7mm 08 it shows I have over 1160 FPE at the target while the bullet is moving 1800fps at 1000 yards with a 2700 MV. It's that simple folks but it's not if you don't know how to run a ballistics app or kestrel with AB.

In reference to the state website saying 1200 FPE //// its all relative my friends - they are just capturing info in a different viewpoint to give advice. The website or the bullet manufacturer has no way of knowing what caliber you'll choose to push what bullet at what velocity. So one speaks in terms of FPS and the other FPE. Once a person understand how to run the app or kestrel it literally takes less than 3 mins to plug in the data and know at what distance a given load or bullet will or will not perform.

Before the 300 or less crowd states the obvious!!!! IF YOU CAN'T CONSISTENTLY HIT AT LR RANGES YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS TRYING IT ON GAME. Please save it for smashing rocks till you know your limits. Common sense right?

I'll not even start talking about wind calls you'll learn that when smashing rocks at distance. Bahahaha

I believe this forum was created to educate shooters and hunters on long range and other topics relating to theae sports and if not Len can correct me.

This is also a free country so anyone can ask whatever they want in order to learn from others as long as it is done respectfully and following the forum's rules.

If you don't agree with that that's fine, but you dont need to bash anyone for them wanting to learn, especially the members that are new to both shooting and hunting.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, ideas, lifestyles and of course what cartridges they like or want to use, and they should be respected whether we agree with them or not.

Just my $0.02

 

[feelinducky]

Well, my answer to the question is: The distance you can hit a 10" target every f.. time. Divide this distance in half and you have a safe distance to shoot at animals.

If the question was about the pure performance of the cartridge, its about how much mv, which bullet and so on.

I use 6,5 on roe deer, and red deer/stag. On red deer my max distance is about 6-700 yards in ideal conditions. I use 147gr eld-m. Before i used nosler ablr 142gr. The bullets do not exit when i hit the shoulder at over 450 yards.

So you must be able to hit a 10" target at 1200-1400yards every time.

 

[19 Badger]

I am confident out to 600 with my .270 wby. Put that same gun in a buddy's hand and it ain't worth squat @ 200 yards. I calculate effective lethal range more by the shooter's capability first and foremost. The gun/cartridge is only as good as the person running it.

 

[greenejc]

I know you all don't like boring Hornady bullets, but I shot a good mule deer buck w/ 139btsp at 435 yards. It was an uphill shot. It clipped a rib, bounced off the spine and hit another rib on the way out. It was moving at 2820 fps. I don't know if I'd shoot an elk that far with it, but I'd be fine with almost any 7-08 load on deer out to 400.

I'm pretty happy with the boring Speer, Hornaday and Sierra bullets in all my rifles. I shoot my 30-06 with 180 or 200 grain Sierras out to 600 yards for practice and have killed a number of Kansas Whitetails with them and Speers in the same grain weight out to 500 yards. Do I have to blood trail a deer sometimes? yep, even with a perfect center-chest shot at less than 150 yards. But the bullets are all good for pass-throughs at those distances, or bone breaking hits in the shoulder. As to the ftlb. requirement for elk, a 45-70 with 405 grain bullet traveling at about 1390fps from a 28 inch barrel will kill elk at pretty much any distance you want to name. It has a ftlb rating of around 1750ftlbs. It will go through a Buffalo at 500 yards. At 500 yards, its only going about 900fps, and has a muzzle energy of about 716 ftlbs. But it has around two and one half times the mass of 180 grain .308 bullet, and much greater momentum. My 35 Whelen shooting Speer HotCor 250 grain Spitzers starts at about 2675fps. Its ftlb rating at the muzzle is around 3990ftlbs. By 800 yards, your small, high bc bullets probably have more ftlbs of energy than my 250 grain bullet. Its only traveling at around 1320fps and carries about 970 ftlbs of energy. But to put that in perspective, at 800 yards, I hit a target or an animal with the mass, velocity and energy of a 44 magnum at the muzzle. And my bullet starts with a .358 cal. hole. Even at that distance, it will end with a silver dollar size exit wound, and will plow straight through both shoulders of anything smaller than a moose. It does kick a bit.

 

[frankinaustin]

Agree on 45-70 Gov lethality
Here is a deer heart from a muzzy I have loaded to mimic 45-70 Gov
He was about 150y

 

[MAD10]

I'm a little curious about the 7mm08 mostly because of what I saw running 215 Berger's from my 308 and how hard they hit elk, I would really like to play with a 195 Berger in a 7mm08, the typical 140-160 gr bullets really don't interest me since thats what I run out of 6.5s and with so much SD they pile drive elk!!
If it we kept it to the 140-160 class bullets I've taken the 6.5 every time because they have so much more penetration an lethality!

I don't use KE number for anything, they don't kill elk but impact velocity and the bullet opening and wrecking lungs and arteries to the of side is all I care about. Some bullets that's closer some it's farther, I won't take an accubomb below 2200 fps the king range version I try not to hit anything o er 2400 fps, 215 Berger's I'll take to 1500 fps some only to 1800, they all have a sweet range just stay in it and it's all good.
I've shot and seen shot so many elk with a 223 and 60 gr soft points and they just trot a few then wobble and tip, one round through the lungs, farthest was just over 300 so nothing long but relatively speaking it's never going to make the numbers most guys throw around.

I like your thoughts!!! FWIW my experience says look into the 7Short Sherman if you want to run 180s or greater in a SA.

 

[MAD10]

2C/1H

Guess we can all just download an APP, and Len can shut down this forum.

You haven't been here very long, and I'm guessing you haven't spent much time on many forums before or you'd already know that every topic possible gets discussed weekly.

This forum (along with every forum) is going to be full of every type of hunter/shorter. Some shoot long range only, some shoot both and some are short range hunters. All of these opinions, experiences and people is what makes this forum.

Steve

Steve you aren't being territorial with " you haven't been around long enough to have an opinion" comment are you.? Rhetorical question just in case you missed that lol

That being said I'll stand by my opinion... discussing short range ballistics in an LR forum is much like going to a sports car racing school and discussing the virtues of how an 18 wheeler handles in the snow....just sayn lol

 

[MAD10]

Steve you aren't being territorial with " you haven't been around long enough to have an opinion" comment are you.? Rhetorical question just in case you missed that lol

That being said I'll stand by my opinion... discussing short range ballistics in an LR forum is much like going to a sports car racing school and discussing the virtues of how an 18 wheeler handles in the snow....just sayn lol

Oh almost forgot love to talk with you about the virtues of my 35 Whelen or 375 Ruger but I'll save it for a different forum.

 

[BoomFlop]

Steve you aren't being territorial with " you haven't been around long enough to have an opinion" comment are you.? Rhetorical question just in case you missed that lol

That being said I'll stand by my opinion... discussing short range ballistics in an LR forum is much like going to a sports car racing school and discussing the virtues of how an 18 wheeler handles in the snow....just sayn lol

2C/1H

If you are going to quote me, at least use an actual quote from something I said instead of creating your own and throwing quotations around it and implying I typed it!

Territorial? No Sir, I'm not a dog! I just participate on an Internet forum open to anyone and discuss topics I am passionate about.

I, unlike you do not care what anyone wants to discuss on this forum. So you are more than welcome to start a new thread.

Have a great day!
Steve

 

[MAD10]

2C/1H

If you are going to quote me, at least use an actual quote from something I said instead of creating your own and throwing quotations around it and implying I typed it!

Territorial? No Sir, I'm not a dog! I just participate on an Internet forum open to anyone and discuss topics I am passionate about.

I, unlike you do not care what anyone wants to discuss on this forum. So you are more than welcome to start a new thread.

Have a great day!
Steve

thanks for confirming you are the guy that goes to a racing school and wants to talk 18 wheelers....

 

[LVJ76]

 

[greenejc]

Oh almost forgot love to talk with you about the virtues of my 35 Whelen or 375 Ruger but I'll save it for a different forum.

Feel free to do that right here. I know I use the Whelen with Speer 250's for shots on steel and targets out to 900 and 1000 yards and I'm sure that you use both the Ruger and the Whelen with heavy bullets for the same kinds of practice. And I assure you they'll kill better than any .308 and below other than the ultra-mag class at those distances. I don't expect to make shots like that on game, but I've killed game with the .35 at distances of 500 yards and more. Exit holes are impressive. I've also shot deer with a .58 cal. Hawken black powder rifle using a 550grain flat nosed mine ball. It will kill anything you can hit with the possible exception of Cape Buffalo and elephant at any distance you hit it at, and will always create a .578 sized entrance and a .75 inch exit wound. And nothing runs very far with an enormous sucking chest wound.

 

[greenejc]

View attachment 151134

Yep, pretty much (again).

 

[frankinaustin]

I think that's the first time I've read of a minie ball round being used on this forum.