"difficult" calibers

[IRAMNTMAN]

In my opinion the only way you can reasonably shoot elk past 5 or 6 hundred yards is by sticking with a large magnum. In my experience, the large magnums can be picky to load for, I think mostly because heavy for caliber loading and (long range hunting) is a newer phenomenon. Most of the cartridges generally considered as long range elk cartridges were not designed for the bullets people are trying to get them to shoot. My go to or elk rifle is a 300 rum, I've owned it probably 15 plus years and have only ever found one load it really likes. But it has the needed energy out to 1k. If I were in the market for a new rifle with those requirements I'd look at the 300prc. Should do everything a 300wm or 300 rum will do, but be easier to load the heavy bullets in, no belt, etc.

 

[koger]

I would give the 6.5x284 a look, basically a identical twin to the 6.5 PRC, and for a hunting rifle, you can put 4 versus 3 in a normal box magazine, with less than 100 fps difference out of the same length barrel, you or the game you hunt will never tell the difference, and brass is made by NOrma, Lapua, nosler, Hornady as well. I have 2 6.5x284's that I built myself, and the shoot 1/2 moa out to 1000 yds, that is if I can read the wind and am a consistent shooter.

 

[Garou_22]

Hard to load: any a substantial neck diameter changing and/or shoulder geometry variances.

Elk to 500 or better.... will 1400 yards do? Easy wildcat is necking a .300 Win Mag to .284, no shoulder changes. It's called a 7mm Practical. Mine is built of a Defiance Rebel Action with 20MOA picitiny ($1200.00 at time of build - 2012), 30 inch Lilja .284 3 groove barrel, Cooper break, AICS folding stock, and Jewel trigger Guard under safety set to 1Lbs. The chamber is bored for Berger 180gr VLD bullets. My load is 76gr H4831SC, Berger 180gr seated at .150, Norma Brass, and a CCI 250 Magnum primer. It's a little hot, but gets me an average 3050fps muzzle velocity with a Standard Deviation of 12.
Compared to my straight .300 Win Mag on a stock Stainless New Haven Model 70 26" shooting a 180gr Sierra GameKing pushed by 74.4gr of IMR 7828SSC, Winchester Brass, and the same CCI 250 Mag primer at an average 3050fps Muzzle, the differences are thus:
.308 = 32MOA drop at 1000yds of a 200yd zero
.284 = 22MOA drop @ 1000 & 200 zero
.308 = 1400ftlb threshold at 800yds
.284 = 1400ftlb threshold at 1400yds

Measurements made over an Öhler 35 3pane proof screen chrono and Kestral 4500 Ammometer on the same day within 10 minutes one platform to the next. Each were 5 shot strings.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Good points looking at most of the posts.

If I was to go down any road of change ,,, I'd consider the first 3 options. Double check the fine tuning of what I have in front of me,,, Swap out the barrel or trade up to something already in the cartrage I can work with.

That's not saying that I wouldn't be picky on cartridge selection either,,, depending on what I'm going to do with this units,,, I'll admit one thing right now,,, I'm poop-t out of owning 3 rifles so time is dictating to me to turn 2 of them into twin duplicates and sell off the other.

Some folks on the fourm might know that I'm a 30/06 middle timer ,,, my back-ups are 308's. I class them as the same thing.

Frugal on powder,,, easy to buy Lapua brass at $120 Cnd funds for 100 of them,,, and bricks of 30 caliber boolitz.

First thing is first with all my units,,, it either shoots good,,, gets a work over """if""" its not up to snuff ,,, test another sorted batch of loads ,,, and off I go into the wilds with a 1 or 3 minute of Moose rifle in hand. If it ain't the tack driver ,,, I close the distance. If it doesn't pan out,,, so be it as its part of the fair game and chase.

Yuppers,,, I see change coming my way this year,,, Two lots of 400 brass for each rifle... Turn both of them into 100 % hunting units with the options of general plinking,,, Target shooting,,, a bit of match stuff and enjoying the out doors across Western & Eastern Canada.

I'm lucky,,, my gun Smith lives down the road from me,,, his job is to build what I want,,, my job is to make it happen. LOL

10% """all""" dialed in package and hopefully 90% shooter behind the glass.
What I lack at pin holes at 100 meters I make up for at distance. Not sure why this is,,, but it seems to be working so far.

Thx for the ideas all,,, its threads like this that give me a path to follow.

Now I need to pick 1 of my top 2 favorites. Ha

 

[TopPin]

I'm my opinion, as far as solid elk cartridges go, you will be hard pressed to beat a 30 cal. Years of hunting and guiding elk hunts, have led me to this. The 7mm is flat but in my experience with it, lacks the knockdown. I've seen alot of in and out holes with a 7, some guys will lose there mind over that, and I'm sure there choice in bullet has alot to do with it. Do they work Absolutely. 6.5 is the new rage in the shooting world, accuracy, fairly fast not over the top with speed, and high bc. But at the upper end your shooting a 147 grain bullet. It has the means to do it, but I consider it to be more of a deer rifle. My opinion. My view is it's hard to beat the knock down of a 180- 210 grain 30 cal. When it comes to larger game such as elk, bear, and even bison. I also love the 338, there is never a doubt if you hit something or not. Shoot a 30 cal or 33 cal bullet, if your targeting big game. I personally love the 300Rum, put a break on it and it kicks like a 243.

 

[TGVet]

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?

I'm not a big poster here mostly just read others. Seems there's alway's so much mention on the family of 7's and others as well but never anything except for a couple mentions of the Dakota Wildcats. I just love the 7mm Dakota I guess since I've build three now in 17 years. The versatility of the cartidge is wide and varied, not unlike many others but I am partial to it. I guess I am in the "niche" category. I am also nothing short of an accuracy freak. If I can't get bug holes, I never give up trying.

Originally staring out in an F class McMillan stock, Lilja tube, Win 70 blueprinted action and running the 162's, my current build is a gun I can use for PRS or reaching out past 1500 at steel or meat for the freezer. Larger calibers unlike my 6mm's and 6.5's are a tad harder to consistanly get one holers, but as you can see in the photo, I manage pretty well. Mind you, this is just 100yds at my home range for development purposes.

I use Lee neck dies, Forster Coaxial press, custom made bullet seater's and body die for bumping 2thou from fire formed brass, Retumbo powder and Vit N560/570, 215M, .313 neck, .288 throat and 8twist for 180,185 and 190 VLD's. Loading the Dakota is very easy and versatile. Photo of five shots is just one example of many accurate loadings using Nosler 185 RDF bullets. Superior and less $ than Berger IMHO. I also have some 175 RBT for hunting I got long ago from Bob Sauter (Bullet Bob back in the day) I have gotten ten firings before I dump the case. You don't need custom dies like I have, Forster and others have stock ones.
I really am surprised more folks are not shooting 7Dakota its a great cartridge.

 

[Bret White]

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?[/QUOT

 

[Bret White]

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?

go with your gut on 30/06.C heaper to reload than most ,tons of load data plenty of energy at extended ranges brass easy to find less recoil than most magnums a wide range of barrel types and weights has been used widely for every big game animal in north america.

 

[Dirtrax]

if your 7mm RM isn't shooting well I'd seriously look into why. It is about as easy to load for cartridge as they come. Is it the barrel? The shooter? The loading technique? Seriously my friend, some analysis is warranted. It may not be a good candidate for Cape Buffalo but nothing in the North American continent is off limits.

 

[wwbrown]

I should have clarified. 500 - 600 is minimal yardage I'd like to kill elk size game.

How many hours are you willing to spend shooting at your desired range in order to learn the skills involved with shooting animals at long range. It is easy to purchase/build a gun that is capable of delivering the required energy to kill an elk at 1,000 yards with a "well placed shot".

Developing the skills to make that "well placed shot" at ranges beyond 500 yards takes time on the range shooting at the ranges you are interested in in a wide variety of conditions. I have shot thousands of rounds at ranges beyond 800 yards, I used to shoot at least once a week at 800 yards or further, I probably have 8 rifles that are accurate enough and have highend optics to do the job I just worry about my skills. All of this shooting has taught me just how fickle the wind is and how hard it is to estimate it effects on the bullet's trajectory. I am lucky to belong to a gun club that has a 1,000 yard rifle range, the opportunity to shoot at long range is pretty limited for most civilian shooters unless you live in the western states with lots of access to flat federal lands.

Do you have easy access to a range that provides shooting ranges beyond your "500-600 minimal yardage", and do you have the time to go out there in a variety of conditions. You may find it easy to shoot effectively at your range as the sun is going down and the wind has laid down, all this tells you is your point of aim and point of impact are the same. The challenge is making those same shots 9 out of 10 times when you show up on a random day at say 3:00 PM, that is the type of performance that may be required to effectively engage your elk at your desired ranges.

For two years running I went out to the range every Saturday work did not have me away from home, I did this to get an idea and have practice shooting in all conditions. I live in Minnesota and have shot in temps down to -20° F to as high as 101° F, you learn not just how your equipment responds to the weather but how you have to be prepared yourself. Given the option I will take shooting at 101° F as it is easier to keep drinking water than trying to keep your fingers moving steadily for good trigger control. The 2 year experience was a good learning experience.

Not trying to rain on your parade but to lay out some of the factors involved in effectively hunting at long range. You may be, and probably are, a much better "wind whisperer" than I am and a natural at shooting at these ranges and if so have at it, if not think about gaining as much practice as you can before taking those long range shots.

Just my two cents,
wade

 

[Jared2700]

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?[/QUOTE)

I think that the 270 wsm would be a great cartiage for you. Lots of speed flat shooter. And will definitely do the job at those ranges and beyond. Have one in a Browning A-bolt. And the accuracy is great. I use Barnes LRX bullets a in all my guns , with excellent results. Never had any animal run or leave my sight when hit with one. and never had to shoot them twice. Hopefully this helps.

 

[Jared2700]

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?

I think that the 270 wsm would be a great cartiage for you. Lots of speed flat shooter. And will definitely do the job at those ranges and beyond. Have one in a Browning A-bolt. And the accuracy is great. I use Barnes LRX bullets a in all my guns , with excellent results. Never had any animal run or leave my sight when hit with one. and never had to shoot them twice. Hopefully this helps.

 

[25WSM]

300wsm is one of the most forgiving easy to load rounds there are. It's one of the most winning cartridges at the Williamsport 1000 yd club. Plenty of energy to pick off most animals on earth. I said most folks. It has a very wide tune window which means you set it and forget it. Go to loads are Berger 210 hunting with 61 to 63 grn of H4350. The heavy gin record was shot with the 300 wizzem. Under 3 inches. Way to go Matt. That's what I would build for the perfect elk rifle. Shep

 

[Jared2700]

Mabe a 6.5-06? I just had a custom one built and it looks promising. I haven't done a ton with it yet but it shoots well. Just need a different scope and a 20 MOA base, or rings. I use 25-06 brass to form brass from. Which seems work out great. I don't have a 25-06, and so I'll never have to worry about putting the wrong shells into the wrong gun. Plus the fact they will not chamber in a 25-06. Making it safe for anyone who might get hold of them. Great round thus far. You might like a 35 Whelan as there are some factory ammo available. You would also need to put a weed burner "Muzzle Break" on the end. Then you could fire 250's with minimal kick, but with magnum performance out of a 06 case. Less powder high performance round. Brass it plentiful as well.

Consider this my intro to the forum. Long time outdoorsman, Grandpa's rifle shooter with core-lokts, gun loving Tennesseean. I grew up under the impression shooting a paper plate was OK for accuracy at 100. Things have changed and quite frankly, I'm never content accuracy wise. I've shot some GREAT groups at 400 and less with factory ammo and rifles.

I've shot some competition pistol. This led to a press and the whole 9. Life happened, time was lost and said press was sold. Only thing I learned was resale SUCKS..

I've got a rifle that doesnt fulfill my itch but I feel like something good can come from it, the action?

I'm looking to build off a Tikka magnum action.
I "feel" a press is needed for the new round. I'm willing to try loading again and this time I feel confident I'll perform.

Question is : What makes a caliber "hard to load"?This will be my first. I'm a hunter and target shooter who has gained respect for lightweight rifles in that order.

I love the 30-06. I looked at building a 6.5prc but have opened to others minus CM. I'll entertain a 7 minus Rem, 260, 280 and 300 peak interest as well in all of their variances.

A) What makes it difficult to load? / B) Examples of difficult vs easy within these parameters?

Two threads in one : I'm looking for elk killing kinetic energy at 500ish (more is better), inherently accurate, reasonable cost to shoot, easy to load, fair bench gun (easy to kill any given weekend without killing my shoulder) at a lower weight. I'm not against using my long action for a short. Unicorn, right?