Triggered my memory about this Inuit from Canada. We had a few conversations on the M14 Forum. That was when I was busy campaigning with a 14. He eventually killed a nanuq with his M1a.
Can 308 do everything you need a rifle to do under 600 yards?
- Thread starter bluejay75
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Lever powder sure helps the 308 with 155-168g bullets....SPEED/Accuracy....
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
Where do you put Lever in relation to CFE 223, TAC, AA2520?
With a 308 factory load you can get the numbers of 1500 ft / lbs for elk at 500 yards with certain brands like...Sig 165 elete hunter.
I have a bunch of 308s. One might be call a hunter with a 22" barrel 9 twist Bartlein on a short action about 7.5 lbs. With detachable mag & no scope.
I shoot 200 gr SMK in it at 2740 fps..In the 22" 5R 308 Bartlein 9 twist, & accurate 10 shot groups. 7.5 lb carry rifle. You can build one on a long action too, as I've done.
Hunting Elk at 2000 ft 59° (warm day ) here are the results of ballistics program:
600 yds 2071 fps 1905 ft/lbs
800 yds 1871 fps 1554 ft/lbs
1000 yds 1683 fps 1259 ft/ lbs
308 win 22" barrel 9 twist. The 200 gr SMK may not be a good hunting bullet it has been used as such.. I use them on varmints...but it is one of the best for velocity and energy in the 308. Here it would be good to 800 yds at least in energy requirements. Berger 200.2 gr is a target bullet accurate but less BC. But would also get 600 yd energy results. Food for thought...and BCs stay higher with faster twist barrels, according to Hornady lab radar...it's fairly significant...look it up. Why my latest 308 builds are 9 & 8 twist.
A 225 ELDM at 2675 fps .777 BC brings a lot of energy to the 308 case in a long action, mag feed 8 twist 30" barrel, or the 200 SMK at 2856 fps .715 BC.
With out the introduction of the 80,000 psi hybrid cases. Which I also have and can run over 3800 ft/lb muzzle energy out of the 308 hybrid case and 30" barrel.
It's how you configure your 308, how much weight you want to pack, and your style of hunting. There are plenty of options to make it light and powerful. Long / short action carbon fiber barrel, and stock of your choosing, 22" is good all around, for hunting IMO.
308 Win on a long action, detachable mag , 9 twist, 200 gr SMK bullets 22" Carbon Fiber barrel, short on/ of muzzle brake, home built. .. no suppressor. And it will shoot 225 emdm and 230 accurately at 2574 fps incase ya need some penetrating power, from your light 22" 308 Win case. Learn to do your own rifle work, chambering and throating etc for long bullets.
Lots of performance in a 308 case plus ya don't have to wait and change anything you want, at any time ya want. I can run 250 Atips in my 8 twist 308 as an example... mag length is 3.4" on this 308. Hornady would call it a "308 PRC"...LOL Don't be hemmed in by constraints others assess to a particular cartridge.
MikeMurf0505!
Active Member
I love 308, used it for varmint deer crows...now I use 25-06 I won't shoot at an animal past 500, I just think it's unethical to risk a wounded animal
Use berger projectiles, the expansion is THE MOST CONSISTANT I've ever seen.
Shane Lindsey
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What powders are you using to get your velocities? Are your 308s long throated?
I've tried just about all the usual recommended 308 powders, like Varget, H4350, and even RL26, looking at imr 7828, and shot some Leverevolution which looks good in 358 Win, and a maybe in the 308 win.
Yes the 308 is only slightly longer throated in the 22". I have the chamber reamer and a throating reamer to extend the 30 caliber throat, so I can adjust to the expected bullets used in different rifles, same reamer and headspace for all 308s with slighty different throating. The 30" is a 8 twist is a bit longer for the 230 Atips, but needs even more if only the 250 Atip is utilized.
But it shoots 130 gr Speer Varmint bullets into tiny groups, with a bunch of jump, and an 8 twist barrel.
In the 308 the 200 grs are MR 2000 above that switch to 6.5 StaBall. Lapua Palma and Lapua regular brass is used. The 200 SMK requires a 9 twist barrel to adequately stabilize and get the full BC value, and they need to be way out to 3.175 to 3.2" COAL, so you stick the long pointy part of the bullet down the barrel not down in the case, greatly increasing case capacity.
The 2.8" COAL standard mag length and a 10 or 12 twist, with 16" barrel won't get ya there. Then began to fill the case with powder work up slowly, make or modify seating stems to conform with the bullet profile. I make or modify them in a lathe, grind a small carbide boring tool, on a diamond grinder to the 200 gr SMK or bullet I'm usings profile, then use the bullet with carbide lapping compound to finish the seating stem. Allowing a nicely seated bullet when the powder charge is compressed a bit. But with good reloading practices, you can use any 308 chamber for improvement in performance with the 200 gr SMK, just work up a load for your chamber, single load. I ran a few 200 SMK 2673 fps in a 18" AR, but that's not recommend. But you should see around 2650 fps in most 308 chambers and 22" barrels with a .715 BC... But the 9 twist makes it work... and 10 shots in 1" or less at a hundred should be doable. Its still a 308 case, with the potential for excellent accuracy. I'm working on the SS Hybrid cases to find the right powder.. plus a bunch of other projects.
Yes the 308 is only slightly longer throated in the 22". I have the chamber reamer and a throating reamer to extend the 30 caliber throat, so I can adjust to the expected bullets used in different rifles, same reamer and headspace for all 308s with slighty different throating. The 30" is a 8 twist is a bit longer for the 230 Atips, but needs even more if only the 250 Atip is utilized.
But it shoots 130 gr Speer Varmint bullets into tiny groups, with a bunch of jump, and an 8 twist barrel.
In the 308 the 200 grs are MR 2000 above that switch to 6.5 StaBall. Lapua Palma and Lapua regular brass is used. The 200 SMK requires a 9 twist barrel to adequately stabilize and get the full BC value, and they need to be way out to 3.175 to 3.2" COAL, so you stick the long pointy part of the bullet down the barrel not down in the case, greatly increasing case capacity.
The 2.8" COAL standard mag length and a 10 or 12 twist, with 16" barrel won't get ya there. Then began to fill the case with powder work up slowly, make or modify seating stems to conform with the bullet profile. I make or modify them in a lathe, grind a small carbide boring tool, on a diamond grinder to the 200 gr SMK or bullet I'm usings profile, then use the bullet with carbide lapping compound to finish the seating stem. Allowing a nicely seated bullet when the powder charge is compressed a bit. But with good reloading practices, you can use any 308 chamber for improvement in performance with the 200 gr SMK, just work up a load for your chamber, single load. I ran a few 200 SMK 2673 fps in a 18" AR, but that's not recommend. But you should see around 2650 fps in most 308 chambers and 22" barrels with a .715 BC... But the 9 twist makes it work... and 10 shots in 1" or less at a hundred should be doable. Its still a 308 case, with the potential for excellent accuracy. I'm working on the SS Hybrid cases to find the right powder.. plus a bunch of other projects.
So I'll try to make this easy...if you have a bit of skill ...maybe run a dremel grinder, have a Remington short action ...10 twist barrel, but a 9 twist is better and a 8.5 or 8 twist might be the best for this endeavor. It's heavy bullets high BC that holds velocity and energy. 1500 ft/lbs the 308 is capable for 800 yds
Built mine out of left over parts, $425 Bartlein 9 twist Sendero profile fits an existing HS precision stock chambered it with existing tool, cut to 22" thread for short brake. Install Magpul bottom metal (plastic) for 700 SA, requires a tiny bit of inletting. Now buy 5 or 10 rd MDT metal mags without the front support bar, slight mod to the 700 action. And now you have a full functioning Short Action 2.980" detachable mag cartridge feeding system cheap. The whole rifle with new barrel cost me about $650 in new parts plus the used parts off old rifles, set the stock trigger to 2 lbs, trued the action also.
Don't want or like Remington...don't do the project or find out if any of these items are available for your brand. The nice thing about a Rem 700 are all the aftermarket parts...so ya don't have to have a gunsmith make it for ya.
If you have a 10 twist you can still make the 600 yd shot at 1500 ft/lbs with a few bullets designed for hunting the Berger 205 elete hunter, 212 gr Hornaday eldx
And best is the Badlands BD2 195 .675 BC.
The 8.5 twist will get the Bulldozer 2 205 gr .785 BC, now your home free over 800 yd 308 Win elk rifle with over 1500 lbs of energy at that distance and its a copper hunting bullet, take care if your LR hunting needs. I don't have this bullet but the powder charges are close to regular lead core bullets the manufacturer says. I'm running 208 eldm at 2640fps now with .690 BC out of the mag, if these hunting 205 BD2 8.5 twist required on these do the same speed with .785 BC that's a real winner for the 308 in hunting most anything.
Flatline has some super high bullets too but don't know if they are for hunting. If I had some Badlands bullets BD2 in 195gr and 205 gr I'd give them a try. Lot a guys like Berger bullets for hunting but their BCs are falling behind, yet again. I use a bunch of Bergers for target shooting, 224, 6mm, some 308 200.2 gr, and 300 gr 338 gr. Always hear mixed reviews about the hunting performance, love em or hate em reaction... but I like their target bullet performance "most" of the time. So its super high BC fast twist and almost 3.00" of mag to add some performance to the 308. The 308 PRC, LOL
This has been do long before the PRC cartridges were around.
Shane Lindsey
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Have tried RL16 with the Berger 215.
RL26 is supposed to do well in a Creedmoor, how did it do in your 308?
How many grains were you able to get before pressure and what velocities?
With what bullet?
What COAL and distance at lands?
RL26 is supposed to do well in a Creedmoor, how did it do in your 308?
How many grains were you able to get before pressure and what velocities?
With what bullet?
What COAL and distance at lands?
Higher velocity with accuracy.
I have not used the 215 Berger.
RL -26 was tried in the long barrel, long action 308 target rifle 8 twist, with 200 gr SMK
3.175" COAL up to 54 grains, (53 gr a better load just to seat the bullet) . Top velocity was 2712 fps. Much too slow for the 200 gr SMK, can not get enough powder in the case to be dangerous, with the 200 gr SMK. But it might work for the 250 Atip for maybe 2500 fps. Working on many projects, besides the 308. Like the 6.5 Creedmoor with bimetal hybrid 277 Fury cases, running the 6.5 Creedmoor with 153 gr Atips at 2956 fps, 147gr ELDM 2979 fps and 150 gr SMK at 2980 fps as now my standard loads. Ran the 150 SMK to 3056 fps in the 6.5 Creedmoor, but backed off for accuracy and pressure. These cases have Stainless steel heads and are not recommended to be reloaded by the manufacturer... I also have them in 308 Win, and 358 Win. For my personal use only. The 277 Fury in hybrid cases had potential but seems to have fallen on its face with the recall of rifles going off after you pull the trigger ...nothing ..begin to open the bolt to see why it did not fire ..bang! It went off, then the safety lever problem. More manufacturers seem to be interested in selling than testing their products for safety and quality...or it won't be generally available for years.
300RUM_N_COKE
Member
- Joined
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308 should be capable of doing what you want. But why talk yourself out of another gun? Get another 30 cal. I love em. But I do understand trying to keep it to one cal. The upside of a 300wsm or 30-06 is they are all 30 cals so if you reload you've got a start on components
memtb
Well-Known Member
Nope! memtb
Brad Quarnberg
Well-Known Member
I love my 308 and have taken many game animals, especially in Europe to include a nice Bronze Medal Red Stag. That said, having also hunted all the big game Alaska has to offer for the 18 years I lived there, I would want a seriously trusted friend with a large caliber to back me up if I were going after Gizz/Brown Bear, and I would be using heavy bullets in the 165gr+ class and keep my shots under 300-400 yards on Elk, Moose, and Bear.
I prefer to have 190-210gr heavies in my 300WSM when hunting the big guys simply because I hate to have to track in heavy timber or down into a deep canyon: I'd rather have them drop where they are when hit.
But that's me.
I prefer to have 190-210gr heavies in my 300WSM when hunting the big guys simply because I hate to have to track in heavy timber or down into a deep canyon: I'd rather have them drop where they are when hit.
But that's me.
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