Bullet failures

I typed this in the other thread as it was being locked

The legends about bullets that "failed" and exactly where the animal was hit are quite popular! The only consistency being that the animal was never recovered...
 
Not much néw to contribute here…
I've never had a bullet failure out of the 35 or so deer I've shot. That said, my shooting distance on all of these animals has only been from 20 yards to 300 yards.
I've used:
Win. 150 gr power points
Rem. 130 gr core lokt
Nosler 130 gr Ballistic Tip
Barnes 130 gr TSX
Barnes 130 gr TTSX
I do like a blood trail (two holes) which is one reason I switched to Barnes.
I have a box of Hammer bullets I'll be trying next.
 
I have had a complete failure on an older Barnes bullet in the late 90's, funny I just posted this on another post earlier today. I shot a caribou three times with a 140 grain Barnes that was moly coated and you could literally cover the three shots with a silver dollar. Later that season in Montana my firend shot a nice Muley buck with the STW with the same bullet and same thing. Luckily it was a hard quartering shot and it went in the onside ham and stopped at the skin on the offside neck area. One little petal had pealed back literally 1/16 of an inch. I sent that bullet back to Barnes with the explanation on my Caribou hunt and then this mule deer hunt and they advised me that they were getting complaints on the new bullets and that they had foound that if the very small hole on the tip of the bullet got something plugged in it before it hit the cavity of the animal it would just pencil right through. they sent me a new box of bullets that they had made the hole larger in an attempt to keep it from plugging up. I never had the issue again. When the TTSX came out I was sold. That is the only time I ever had a series of bullets not perform.
 
So, after all the threads lately about bullets and how one is better than the other etc etc etc...

Has anyone truly had a "bullet failure" on a game animal? Where you for 100% certainty, can say you made proper shot placement and the bullet actually failed at killing the animal humanely?

Do any of these new bullets actually "kill" better than a Cor-lokt? Partition? Game King? TSX?

Have hunters been losing animals for a hundred years by using soft point lead core bullets?

Quite a few of them unfortunately and I've detailed them out here over the years.

The worst were Nosler BT's which lacking another way to say it frequently turned completely inside out and reversed at high velocity hitting hogs and occasionally on deer.

The base would become the leading edge of the bullet and punch through leaving a smaller than caliber sized exit. Often they left horrible large but not deep gaping wounds on the entry side. We found some of those animals a mile away from where they'd been hit, some, we never found. Most we were lucky enough to get a second shot into the shoulders and/or spine and anchor them.

I saw a lot of this with Nosler Partitions that people hit nothing but rib with as well, they'd shed everything in front of the partition and just pencil through, some running a long way before grounding.

I recently detailed out the tail of the TSX's doing something similar resulting in a lot of lost deer I had to track for others.

We've had numerous threads over the years discussing Berger's that failed to open and penciled through. I haven't shot a lot of Bergers but after one similar incident I cased using them on game.

The problem with understanding a true bullet failure is that more often than not you don't recover the bullet and often lose the animal. How many of those are failures vs, complete misses and poor placements? Without at least finding the animal you'll never know.

I'm more fortunate than most, I'm a very good tracker and got lots of experience doing so guiding and I've always had dogs that could follow a seemingly invisible blood trail.

Tracking is a skill that we've largely lost in this country.

I also had a horrible failure with an SGK that turned after impact and somehow ran down along the ribs and spine just below the skin creating a disgusting open wound over 2' long. Little bits of lead were round along the desired wound track in the chest, the rest somehow went along the spine. I've not shot an SGK at game since and won't if I can avoid it.

People tend to want different things when it comes to terminal performance. I want a bullet that mushrooms nicely but retains about 75-95% of it's weight giving me ideally a golf ball sized exit.

I flat won't shoot a cup and core HPT at a game animal period anymore because of penciling through or exploding shallow.

If we could somehow come up with a bullet that guaranteed 6" of penetration before detonating like a small grenade destroying everything in the chest cavity we'd have a real winner but I don't think we'll ever get there.
 
So, after all the threads lately about bullets and how one is better than the other etc etc etc...

Has anyone truly had a "bullet failure" on a game animal? Where you for 100% certainty, can say you made proper shot placement and the bullet actually failed at killing the animal humanely?

Do any of these new bullets actually "kill" better than a Cor-lokt? Partition? Game King? TSX?

Have hunters been losing animals for a hundred years by using soft point lead core bullets?
Yes to bullet failure but my own fault because I was using SMK at a low velocity and they just poked tiny pencil holes.

As for the new bullets such as the Hammer hunter and lehigh controlled chaos that I use their are several dead animals over the last few years that would agree that they are extremely efficient killing machines and I have converted nearly all rifles over to these now.
 
Yes to bullet failure but my own fault because I was using SMK at a low velocity and they just poked tiny pencil holes.

As for the new bullets such as the Hammer hunter and lehigh controlled chaos that I use their are several dead animals over the last few years that would agree that they are extremely efficient killing machines and I have converted nearly all rifles over to these now.
when you used the controlled chaos bullets were any of them long range? any details caliber, velocity, or results i have wanted to try them just haven't yet and you were the first to post about using them that i seen
 
when you used the controlled chaos bullets were any of them long range? any details caliber, velocity, or results i have wanted to try them just haven't yet and you were the first to post about using them that i seen
I use them in a 204 ruger at 3800 fps and it has killed more coyotes than I can count from 1 to 500 yards. I also use the 110 grain in a 308 at 3000 Fps and have taken several deer and coyotes as well but never over 400 yards. I also have 62 grain in 243 and 32 grain loaded for 5.7x28 at 2100 FPS from a 5.75 inch barrel but I haven't killed anything with those 2 yet. Plan to load some in an AR-10 that I built in 300 WSM and a 6.5 GAP but for some reason the Lehigh Defense website says it's currently not selling any bullets or ammo.
 
Yes. Right after Berger came out with the 7mm 195 elite hunter, myself and several other's that hunt with me started shooting them in 7 Saums and 7 wsm's. Total disaster! Shoot elk standing broadside behind the shouder, 400 yard chip shots, act like nothing happened. I put 2 into a cow and she still walking. 3rd shot in the neck to put her down. Lost a few cows that were shot 2 x on good broadside shots. Some in the late hunts go 1/2 mile in deep snow. Have to get on snowmobile to go finish it off. Shot a doe 3x at 700 yards, walked behind a bush and laid down. Took 15 mins to die. Seen some other bizzare deals on some deer other people were shooting. Shot a goat in the shoulder that ran 400 yards. Heard of other people having issues too. Ater going thru this on 6 elk and several deer, i said NO More 195's on my hunts. My brother talked to Berger and they admitted that they were having issues. They sent him new bullets, but they were the same lot, so no good for hunting. we still have a bunch of those, but only use them for steel or gophers. Also had bullet failures with 180 ELD M's on elk at closer ranges , under 400 yards. Too fragile and not getting enough penetration. Work great on deer. Also a few pencil holes with 300 gr Bergers and 180 VLD's, so it does happen. And yes, they were good shots.
 
I agree that bullet failure cannot be proven 100% without recovery of the animal. But IMHO it can, and does happen. I also agree that incorrect bullet choice is a factor as well. The one animal I lost was in the mid 90s with an old Barnes X at 80 yds from a 270 wby 130 Barnes X at around 3300 fps and I still believe shot placement was good. Was I to close for that velocity? I also shot a 4x4 Muley earlier that year with the same rifle/bullet combo. I put three in a nice little group through the boiler room at about 350 yds and all 3 penciled through, but the buck was recovered. I found 3 good shots when I skinned him that were caliber size in, and caliber size out. Was I too far this time? I blame myself for the loss of the elk, but thought the bullet would perform as advertised on a much more solid animal like an elk. I should never have trusted the bullet to perform after the deer. So yes. My fault. Not the bullet.
 
you see a lot of complaints about the old Barnes X. if there is one thing we learned from Hammer bullets is that monos need to be spun fast and wondering if it is a stability issue more than a bullet issue.
anybody here ever run the Barnes X in fast twist barrels?
after reading through this tread and thinking i am starting to wonder if we are having stability issues instead of just bullet issues especially with some if the older chamberings that normally come with slow twist barrels
 
Regarding stability with copper bullets, I did have a conversation with Bryan Litz about it at one point just to get confirmation of my own thinking on it, especially after reading some interesting claims in this very forum. Since the same weight copper bullet has to be longer than the same weight lead core bullet, due to the lack of density, it does need a higher stability factor in order to get its full BC potential and full stability. That said, they still don't really need to be pushed to anything over 2.0 to get proper results. That said, I do think a lot of people struggled in the beginning with copper bullets achieving proper stability by not having sufficient twist rate and MV, but the notion now I hear about needing an SG of 4.0 or more with bullets like Hammers is a bit silly. I've seen claims too that guys are having to set their ballistic calculators to BCs of up to 1.0 to get their POI to match the calculator. This was something I brought up with him as well. He agrees there's other factors there that are producing that error. Just thought this might be useful information 🤷🏼‍♂️

Below are some screenshots of my conversation with Bryan.
3DA16040-73D1-483D-A2F7-9433E70D24DA.jpeg

8C19CE2F-28FA-44B1-BCB8-A3626AE1C4BB.jpeg
 
Why don't you guys ever talk about Sierra bullets I have used them for over 50 yrs and killed 81 head of elk from 20 yds out to 900 yds mostly from a 7mm-300 wby and never lost a elk Grizz
 
Why don't you guys ever talk about Sierra bullets I have used them for over 50 yrs and killed 81 head of elk from 20 yds out to 900 yds mostly from a 7mm-300 wby and never lost a elk Grizz
The 195gr Sierra TMK is one of my current favorite bullets to hunt with. Sierra is also in my backyard, so I do tend to favor them as they are in my community 😉.
 
Top