Bullet design for 30-30

[RockyMtnMT]

I'm going to be drawing my sheep tag this week and it has me thinking about what I am going to hunt it with. Rhian (Bigngreen) is finished with my 338 Lap Imp and will be bringing it to me end of this week. Can't wait. But I have been complaining about the weight of that rifle for a few years now and it just got heavier. I'm too old for that crap. And since sheep hunting is not generally a real long range affair, I am thinking fondly of my Marlin 30-30 that has been more or less ignored since I shot my 1st deer with it at 12 years old. It is really light and darn nice to carry. I am thinking that with a great bullet the old 30-30 would be a great 300y rifle with open sights. Long range in my opinion.

So having thoughts about a bullet to max the case capacity and keep the base at the neck shoulder junction. That would give us roughly .45" of baring surface and leave us with roughly .48" of nose to keep COAL in the 2.515" range. This will be a mono pure copper bullet.

Question about nose design for tube magazine. How much point can be on the bullet and be safe in magazine? With hollow point not touching in the center, does that get rid of primer ignition possibility? Do we need to clear the primer all together? Lead nose semi round hit right in the primer. I know the lead is softer than the copper, I just need to know how much we have to spread out the nose primer contact to not get an accidental ignition. I have some hollow point ideas that should make this bullet devastating.

Any input on designing this bullet are welcome.

Steve

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Wow, I would love to see a good 30-30.

IMHO, just larger than the bevel on the primer for the hollow point.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Wow, I would love to see a good 30-30.

IMHO, just larger than the bevel on the primer for the hollow point.

So you are saying eliminate contact with the flat face of the primer? This was my original thought but was not sure if I could make it smaller by spreading the contact area out.

Steve

 

[HammerB1]

By the way Steve, I have heard from a little birdie, I am drawing the sheep tag but I will shoot a 30-30 to hunt it and you are welcome to tag along

 

[RockyMtnMT]

By the way Steve, I have heard from a little birdie, I am drawing the sheep tag but I will shoot a 30-30 to hunt it and you are welcome to tag along

You draw the tag and I will get on my bike and get in shape to pack it out for you. I expect the likewise from you.

Steve

 

[HammerB1]

You know it. I'll be right there!!!! I'll even gut it for you.

 

[RT2506]

If you are really serious about using your Marlin 30-30 then I suggest that you give the 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip a try and just load the rifle as a two shot. Put one round in the chamber and one in the magazine. I have killed around 100 or so deer with this bullet in different caliber weapons out to a little over 300 yards and as long as you keep your impact velocity under 3000 fps it is a wonderful thin skin game bullet. It is my favorite deer bullet in my T/C Contender 14" barrel pistol in 30-30AI. This round in the pistol will duplicate what a 30-30 Win will do out of a rifle and it SMOKES deer.

 

[HARPERC]

Congratulations on the tag, I'm zip for 5 states! One thing leads to another doesn't it.gun)

I've been curious to how you decide diameter and depth of your hollow points. The hollow point on the .308, 101 grain bullet is noticeably a bigger diameter than that of the the 6mm, or the 2 .375's I have on hand. It's actually the first thing I noticed when I opened the box. A bit of rough fooling around with a paper clip, and the depth hollow point on the 248 grain .375 is easily the shallowest of the 4.

If I'm going to keep the grizzlies off of you while you pack sheep meat, I think something in the 275 grain range, hollow pointed to about the diameter of of the 101's, and the depth of the 395's could be the ticket.gun)

I think the 2 round is a good solution.

I'm too old for iron sights, and I doubt a summer of mountain bike gets me in sheep shape.

 

[etisll40]

good idea for a 30-30 barrel, thz

 

[RockyMtnMT]

First I do not plan to use a Nosler bullet from my 30-30 as that would seem to be odd since we manufacture Hammer Bullets. I would like to design a bullet that is designed specifically for the 30-30 and able to mag feed and use it to 300 yards. I am not looking to adapt my weapon to what bullet if available. I am looking to design a bullet to the weapon.

Carl,

We design the hollow pt on the bullets that you are talking about based on how much of the bullet we want to retain weight. The 101 was specifically designed for the 300 black out and wanting it to be able to expand down to very low velocity of 1400 fps or less. The idea was to make a bullet for the black out that could be lethal on pigs and deer out to 300 yards. The other bullets are designed for higher velocity and farther ranges where bc becomes a bit more important and low velocity impact not quite as important. If that makes sense.

Steve

 

[HARPERC]

First I do not plan to use a Nosler bullet from my 30-30 as that would seem to be odd since we manufacture Hammer Bullets.

We design the hollow pt on the bullets that you are talking about based on how much of the bullet we want to retain weight. The 101 was specifically designed for the 300 black out and wanting it to be able to expand down to very low velocity of 1400 fps or less. The idea was to make a bullet for the black out that could be lethal on pigs and deer out to 300 yards. The other bullets are designed for higher velocity and farther ranges where bc becomes a bit more important and low velocity impact not quite as important. If that makes sense.........Steve

Yes it does, and I suspected that was the answer, I was curious if there was a system, experience, or a ratio that seemed to work. In part taking up the question of how far one could go with the hollow point in a tube magazine, and retain some semblance of a ballistic profile.

I did enjoy the mental picture of Bryan calling out ranges, while you elevated the rear sight with the metal ramp common to 30-30's. I also figured you might treat a for real tag next week, different than a hypothetical tag this week.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Yes it does, and I suspected that was the answer, I was curious if there was a system, experience, or a ratio that seemed to work. In part taking up the question of how far one could go with the hollow point in a tube magazine, and retain some semblance of a ballistic profile.

I did enjoy the mental picture of Bryan calling out ranges, while you elevated the rear sight with the metal ramp common to 30-30's. I also figured you might treat a for real tag next week, different than a hypothetical tag this week.

I am crossing everything that I can possibly cross for that ram tag.

Steve

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I am crossing everything that I can possibly cross for that ram tag.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I wish you all that can be had in luck getting drawn.

Repeating the obvious but as I understand it, a smaller hollow point meplat will allow you to design a bullet with better ballistics. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. The "pointier" design goal has to be balanced against the problem of ignition under recoil for tube magazines.

I've run Barnes, XTeme copper plated and Meister Hard Cast Lead. I know you can come up with ballistics better than those. The Barnes hollow point is much bigger than the primer so the meplat rides on the brass, no ignition problem.

Based on what I see with these bullets in my '66 (actaully a 1966 anniversary edition), my lever 45 Long Colt (uberti), lever 45-70 (real 1886 mfg 1888) and the "elevator" action that lifts the round up from the "follower" after it has fed backwards from the spring in the magazine...

If the hollow point is smaller than the bevel for the primer, it "may" catch on the bevel. Causing a jammed cartridge. At the moment, I have no way to test this so I may be worrying about something that could happen but in reality never will.

If the ID if the hollow point is the same as the ID of a primer then the bullet surface will ride on the curved part of the primer. I think that would prevent primer ignition on recoil. This is the smallest meplat I would expect to be "safe" from accidental ignition.

If I may be so bold. A possible testing method: This may be a stupid idea but it is safer than a fully loaded round going off in a mag tube.

make a heavy wall tube that will hold loaded rounds under spring tension like a tubular magazine with a screw in plug to lock the rounds in.
make the spring retainer sacrificial, as in light weight and easily blown out the end.
make enough bullets with the smallest meplat you dare and load them with primers only.
Load the primer only rounds into the tube and put the plug in.
Find a way to "SAFELY" slam the tube down on the plug end to simulate recoil.

If you can't get them to go off, dent the primers or hang up in the action. You got the meplat dimension.

I don't know if any of this is any help or anything you haven't already thought of.

If you make it I will buy it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Hi Steve,

I wish you all that can be had in luck getting drawn.

Repeating the obvious but as I understand it, a smaller hollow point meplat will allow you to design a bullet with better ballistics. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. The "pointier" design goal has to be balanced against the problem of ignition under recoil for tube magazines.

I've run Barnes, XTeme copper plated and Meister Hard Cast Lead. I know you can come up with ballistics better than those. The Barnes hollow point is much bigger than the primer so the meplat rides on the brass, no ignition problem.

Based on what I see with these bullets in my '66 (actaully a 1966 anniversary edition), my lever 45 Long Colt (uberti), lever 45-70 (real 1886 mfg 1888) and the "elevator" action that lifts the round up from the "follower" after it has fed backwards from the spring in the magazine...

If the hollow point is smaller than the bevel for the primer, it "may" catch on the bevel. Causing a jammed cartridge. At the moment, I have no way to test this so I may be worrying about something that could happen but in reality never will.

If the ID if the hollow point is the same as the ID of a primer then the bullet surface will ride on the curved part of the primer. I think that would prevent primer ignition on recoil. This is the smallest meplat I would expect to be "safe" from accidental ignition.

If I may be so bold. A possible testing method: This may be a stupid idea but it is safer than a fully loaded round going off in a mag tube.

make a heavy wall tube that will hold loaded rounds under spring tension like a tubular magazine with a screw in plug to lock the rounds in.
make the spring retainer sacrificial, as in light weight and easily blown out the end.
make enough bullets with the smallest meplat you dare and load them with primers only.
Load the primer only rounds into the tube and put the plug in.
Find a way to "SAFELY" slam the tube down on the plug end to simulate recoil.

If you can't get them to go off, dent the primers or hang up in the action. You got the meplat dimension.

I don't know if any of this is any help or anything you haven't already thought of.

If you make it I will buy it.

That is exactly the kind of brain storming mode we are in. I am not sure that we can re invent the wheel here. I think the safest smartest thing to do here is not allow the bullet to contact the primer of the one in front of it. I don't think we are going to be making a high bc bullet for this type of action. For sure we will make one that shoots lights out and hits like a Hammer. Pun intended.

Steve