Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box

[JSHKS]

Just my opinion, like elbows everyone has a couple.
I understand there are times when long shoots are required.
I like rifles and have almost enough.
I am fair at judging a distance out to 300, most times.
Years ago I had to decide if it was a bow or a handgun. At the time I knew way more folks shooting handguns. I went the handgun route. I have some small cull bucks shot with a wheel gun that are more of a trophy to me than a few really nice ones shot with rifle caliber single shot pistols.
My rifle bucks actually mean little to me,they had no clue I was even in the state.
My most treasured form horn was shot with a 4" model 29 at around fifty big paces.
I am not hung up on horns, I like to eat them. Not like many of us can't afford the grocery store, yet it gets worse there every day. I could buy a lot of beef for what I expend in funds for 1 cooler of venison.

 

[Small Lady]

As long as you have enough land and Jim Beam, I'll be right out!
Oh! make sure it's the one with honey.
And by the way, do you have any extra hip boots?

I googled Jim Beam, sounds interesting.
Never had a drink of hard liquor.
An occasional glass of wine or beer.
My last drink was in July, had a beer, only drink so far in 2023.

 

[Small Lady]

For you or anyone else to hit 20 beer cans in a row at 800 yards, your rifle better be the best of the best. Meaning it better shoot less than .300 groups at 100 yards consistently...that means EVERY shot. A beer can is 2 1/2" in diameter. So, half of the beer can is 1 1/4". So, intrinsic accuracy says
.300 x 8(800 yards)=2.4" which means everything would have to be perfect for every shot to get a hit. We haven't even talked about shooting under field conditions or the fact that factory ammo isn't capable of that type of accuracy, or a 1 mph breeze that you can't perceive between you and the beer can or mirage or even parallax in the optics. You're talking about world record, benchrest, hall of fame shooters accuracy that is shot with big, heavy, wide forearm rifles, with heavy barrels, 2 ounce triggers, off of the best benchrests in the most controlled circumstances possible, off of the sturdiest benches....not off a bipod or a backpack or makeshift sand bags. I'll have to give you one thing....you do dream big for sure.

Setting goals is good.
If we have nothing to strive for, life loses a lot of its meaning.
I've known too many people who just go about their lives with no goals, no plans to grow as a person, and don't care to learn anything new, or improve.
I feel sad for them.
Almost every day I watch a random youtube video on a topic that I know nothing about, so I can learn about something new.
Today it was about changing the clutch in a YZ85, so if I had to replace mine someday, at least I would have a clue as to how.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I save my 7mm brass, but not the 22 or 30-30 brass.
That i just pick up off the ground and put into the pails that my boss has, where we all put used ammo.
I have to buy my own 7mm ammo, but my employer supplies me all the 22 and 30-30 I want.
If I get a 243 all the ammo will be supplied for that free as well.

Must be nice.

 

[Small Lady]

No doubt some folks have a harder time spending the large amounts of time and even money required to shoot often, but there really is no substitute for it. I do most of my shooting with my old Cooper 57M 22lr. The trigger is excellent so it's very comparable to the Trigger Techs I have in almost all my hunting rifles, and that's definitely another point when it comes to me. Some guys can shoot fairly well with terrible triggers, but I am not one of them. I can't shoot with creep or a heavy trigger pull, at least not compared to how well I can shoot with a light crisp trigger. I have some that break at ounces, and some at around two pounds, but they break like glass, and I have to have that. Should you be one of the guys that refuses to spend the time and money to shoot often, and I'm not bashing you, but you've got to do something even if it's get a snap cap or whatever they call the dummy rounds and spend as much time as you can squeezing the trigger. Trigger pull is a big deal in hitting targets period, but it is huge at distance. You've got to get familiar with your setup, and you have to shoot live rounds at distance even if it's rarely if you are going to hit your target at distance. Like I said I shoot many 22 rounds a year and enjoy eating the squirrel that die as a result of some of that.

5 to 8 ounces feels good for me.
I don't even understand making any gun with more than 12 ounce squeeze maximum, and that is for the men with huge hands and built like Sylvester Stallone.

 

[wilkup]

While I understand you're concern, I'm the last person who want's it micro managed, If Europe can find a common sense, reasonable standard for testing, there's no reason the US can't. No one's looking for 1/2 moa at 200 yards; 5moa at 50 is not asking a lot. Let's look for a middle ground. Also a basic, common sense Q&A would not be asking too much.

When they find that standard go ahead and let us know, because from my vantage point there hasn't been anything resembling common sense in relation to firearm ownership on that side of the world since before WWI.
Self defense shouldn't be a privilege reserved for the nobility, it's a basic human right.

 

[Small Lady]

It has alway been the Man behind the Gun and not the Rifle.
The Military has proven this and Match Shooting.

Or woman!

I believe that physical activity and conditioning play a large part in it to.
The person who is grunting and groaning just getting into the prone shooting position is already at a huge disadvantage over a healthy person who finds it easy, and has no problem doing a 20 km run or 50 km hike per day.
Its a lot like a horse, some are in great shape, some mediocre, and some nearly die doing an easy trail ride.
I have no problem at all doing over 100 kms per day on my horse, 10 days in a row, or over 150 per day on a 3 day ride. That would literally kill many horses.
Thanksgiving day I did a very faced paced 108 km ride on Sam, my horse, he wasn't even tired. This ride had a lot of elevation changes, tons of downed trees, river crossings, mud, and more, and i pushed him to keep his speed up. There is no way I would do that on 99% of the horses I see out there while driving around, it would kill them.
My boy more had an enjoyable little ride, no big deal.
Many mornings i walk him a half km to get him moving, then a little trot for half km to warm him up, then a half km at a decent gallop, then run him flat out for a few kms.
When I get to whatever place I needed to be at I climb off his back and let him wander around freely. In 10 minutes time you would never know that he wasn't teleported there, because he is so conditioned that he recovers quickly.

Shooters should also try getting in better shape.
If on a horse hunt, why not get off daily and jog say just 10 kms and let your horse follow you, so that you to get some exercise.
For those who can't do it, understandable.
But some could, and won't...even if they have to start off with just a 5 km run to build up to 10, 20, 30 km runs.

But getting in shape is so important.

 

[Newb77]

Reading through some of these in aww of the stories. I don't pretend to know a ton about long range, but I did spend 2 years shooting my rifle and working on loads before carrying it on a trip to Colorado. And go figure, never got a chance to take a shot. Lol

 

[Small Lady]

Your 30-30 shells must be Ranch supplied. One of the more difficult shells to buy or find here for nearly 2 years. As for not costing much 500 will run over $1200.00. That's alot of disposable income these days. Since January 01,2023....my mortgage payment has gone up 110%. So I'm starting to know what poor is looking like! I for one am not looking to put 3700.00 into ammo... anytime soon!

I was broke all the time it seems a few years ago.
My job paid badly, a measly $80k a year as an RN, so i had a roommate to help pay the bills, and was always doing gigs on the side.
There are better paying jobs out there, go after one of those.
Can also check Craigslist gigs to pick up side jobs, as an income supplement.
It wasn't hard to pick up another $20,000 cash per year doing side jobs with little effort. That is the same as making $30,000 at a regular job.
You name it, and someone needs it done.
I worked on people's bikes, delivered cars for dealerships, helped with inventory counts, assistant to a caterer, wildlife counter sitting on a mountain top with binoculars, babysitting, cleaning, working at auctions, construction site clean up, waxing cars and boats, working on movie and tv show shoots doing everything, beer and wine sample person at liquor stores, assistant to wedding photographers, security at functions, 1st aid at functions, part time limo driver, which by the way has ridiculous tips people pay, and a lot more.
If I were ever to move back to a city, I'm not going to get a full time job. Instead will do gigs, loved the variety, and make way more money. 40 bucks an hour as an RN isn't worth it. Thank God I now have a good paying job!

 

[Turpentine21]

I don't like to discuss my medical issues, but they're applicable to this issue; eight years ago I severely damaged my spine requiring fused discs in my lower neck, a plate and a couple more discs in my lower back. As a result I've been on nerve medication and pain meds daily. One unfortunate effect is the medication affects memory. I also couldn't shoot for 31/2 years. Now, getting back into reloading and shooting, there are things I should know and remember but can't. I've come to the forum many times asking asking for answers wondering if people think I'm some beginner when in fact I started reloading 45 plus years ago. I'd rather ask the "dumb" questions rather than screw up monumentally.

I can relate. I broke 4 vertebrae in a treestand accident in 2005. 4 years, 9 operations, 11 fused vertebra, and an enough titanium and stainless hardware to fill a tacklebox got me upright and walking again. The meds are certainly no fun. Without them things get even worse. They do make me forgetful as well. I don't hunt much anymore because sitting still comes with its own set of problems and I don't do treestands anymore. Shooting has been a great outlet for me as I'm sure it is for you. I enjoy the entire process. Reloading, teaching others, shooting, I've even built a few rifles. I wish you the best.

 

[Small Lady]

I don't see any big winners shooting 400.00 rifles in the past 20 years or more. I believe it's a combination of both...You could be the best marksman in the world and be given a weapon not capable of shooting a 5 " group at 100 yards...the man and the gun are a pair!

Obviously still need a quality rifle, scope, and ammunition.
But a crappy shooter with $25,000 rig will be outshot by a good shooter who spent 1/4 of that.

And some complaining about inaccuracy may find its as simple as a worn out barrel if they replaced it with a new one.
I was given an old 30-30, it was all over the place, i ordered a new barrel, and it shoots pretty good now.
I've already ordered another new barrel for it and have it under my bed ready for when I need it.
Next year I will order a new barrel for my 7mm to so when i need it i have it.
Drive around with only half the normal psi in your car tires, and blame the car for poor handling is the same thing. My F150 tires get hit with a gauge monthly.

 

[Small Lady]

You never met Quigley!

Just googled that

 

[Small Lady]

I believe reading what @Small Lady was stating...she is well aware that it is a near impossible goal but is modest enough to set the Bar so high in-order to qualify herself Proficient and ready for lesser ranges. Realist..not dreamer..just me!

Exactly!

Why would my goal be to just hit anywhere on a huge sheet of paper at 300 yards?
If that was as good as i cared to get I would sell my guns, why bother.
Its like a gold miner saying yup yup yup my goal this year is to get 100 ounces...when they know that is easy to do, and last year they got 300 ounces. Why not say to themselves, my goal this year is 500 ounces, and then work hard for it...maybe they only get 450, but hey that is 50% more than the year before, because they were reaching for that 500 goal.
Maybe I will try for for the next 5 years and never hit 20 cans in 20 rounds at 800 yards. But that is my next goal i set for myself.
Yes it requires the right day to, with no wind.
By why would I say to myself yup I'm going to haul a sheet of plywood 800 yards down on my quad, lean it against the dirt bank, and if I can hit it 3 times in a row, then I have achieved my goal. I don't want to set a goal for myself that low. If that is the goal for someone else, then hey that's okay I guess for them, not for me.

My goal after I bought myself a dirt bike last summer was to be able to do a 100' wheelie, and feel good jumping it with 5' of air under the tires. I practiced until that was no longer hard to do, then set myself new goals. It is my first motorbike, love my YZ 85.

 

[shaughn]

Multi dollar rig will not give any significant edge to a crappy shooter over a good shooter with a good rig. Put that good rig into the hands of an excellent shooter .....well that is where hunts become legendary memories ...like some one said around a campfire many moons ago...practice practice practice...