Bonded vs Non Bonded - Accubond vs Berger or SST or Ballistic Tip

[huntDad66]

Curious, did the bullet hit the shoulder on the way in?

The round that made the soup only hit a rib bone.

 

[central iowa couple]

Thanks Plinker. I'm going to keep using the softer bullets and I like to use heavy for caliber on the magnum so I avoid bullet blow up on impact.

Thanks again

 

[Sockeye66]

I emailed Nosler about the 7mm 120gr BTip and got this reply:
The 7mm-120gr BT was designed with a slightly thicker jacket than the 7mm-140gr BT's because the lighter bullet will have higher muzzle velocities and thus higher impact velocities which the thicker jacket will help with decreasing fragmentation and increasing weight retention as you mentioned below.



The 7mm-140gr AccuBond is also a great bullet in the 7mm-08 that will also work great on deer so you'd be in good shape either way.

Interesting, several years ago I toured the Nosler plant in Bend and I coincidentally was paired with a fella that must've been a bigshot because they rolled out the red carpet for him and I was along for the royal treatment as Joe nobody. During the 3+ hour tour, I asked the head of the bullet producing line about the 7mm 120gr. and his response was that it was simply a shortened 140gr using the same cup, thus the thicker jacket thru less extrusion. Although the one deer that I'm certain was a good hit and wasn't recovered was with this bullet, I still think the 120gr is a solid choice for the faster 7mm's.

 

[Wachsmann]

All this talk about which bullet. Well here a different perspective.Hunting whitetail in Va. Had one at 48 yards. No trophy just a doe. Took the shot. Took about 1 bounce and fell over kicking. So for the story part the deer was looking away and the instance that I took the shot she started turning her head to look in my direction and like a classic whitetail she dropped about 6 inches muscles tensed ready to bounce but by then it was to late as the muzzy was piercing her shoulder and before she was able to make a move there was complete pass through. No retained knock energy just good old fashion slice and dice. She made one bounce to her death. It crazy no trophy but that shot has been etched into my mind like it happen yesterday. It seem like slow motion, I never thought I would ever experience seeing everything happen like that. I can still remember seeing the bending of the arrow as it was in flight before it straighten out. No that said I'm mostly a gun hunter and longest kill is 762 yards with my 300RUM on a mule deer. 220 grain ELDX. Muzzle velocity is 3123. Deer was dirt and pass through. Hit upper ribs and bullet went out. Quarrying away shot. My bow is set to 63lbs draw weight and only flys about 280 to 290 tops. I think with animals being bang flop has a lot to do with the animal. Personal opinion. I shot a whitetail buck with an 3006 180 grain pass through that ran 80 plus yard and this was a Texas rat at 68lbs field dressed that with hide. So animals can act differently when shot.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I'm Old School and have had, NO "problems" killing many, Deer / Antelope sized Game with, Sierra GK's, Horn Interlocks, Nosler Partitions, Accubonds, etc. in my .270 WSM, .30-06's, .270 Wby's, 7 R M's, etc. But Elk, are, a DIFFERENT, "Ball Game" !! I am finally going to try the Berger Classic Hunter 140's at "warp speed" in my Tikka .270 WSM because,...
The 140 AccuBonds at 3,150 FPS did NOT, destroy the Heart Lung area like I thought they would, on an Elk that, I shot in Arizona 3 years ago at, a measly 70 ( SEVENTY ) Yards ! YUP, He died, but bounced around, on his Feet for, a few "Jumps" ! My Jaw dropped at, THIS performance and like the OP, that experience has left me, wondering/ thinking about, those bullets, ever since ! I shot him just behind, the "Crease" (over "sticks") in the Boiler room, as he walked by us from, behind ! You'd think, a 140 AB at 3,150 FPS would have "paralyzed" him and would have, fallen over, IMMEDIATELY at, THAT Range !
I have been SERIOUSLY thinking that, NOW,.. I'll try, Berger's 140 grain, Classic Hunters for my next, Elk or, Moose Hunt !
I love, the accuracy and LOW Recoil of, the .270 WSM and WON'T change Calibers,. Bullets ???? Probably !
I AGREE with,.. the opinions of, the OP, Plinker and Kimber7man and WANT,.. the "Bang Flop" IF,.. possible !

 

[Cwray5]

This past deer season I took a coues with a 168gr Berger with my 7mm Rem Mag, my first kill with a Berger and total destruction of vitals, dead on the spot.

I've taken several deer with the 139gr SST with my 7mm-08 with the same results, quick kill with vitals turned to smush. Some deer with 120gr Ballistic Tips and also the same results.

Now, my buddy took a coues with a 270 WSM and a 140gr Accubond, result was a slower death, bullet went through one rib and both lungs and rested under the skin the on the opposite side. The damage to the lungs was not as severe, a decent hole through them but still complete.

Last week I took a javelina with a 140gr Accubond with my 7mm-08, now usually I take these down with head and neck shots to preserve the little meat they have. In this case his head was behind some prickly pear cacti so lung shot it was, and to the ground he fell. About 15 minutes later as I approached him he pops up about 15 yards in front of me takes a few steps then slowly lays down and expires. Lungs were complete with a nice hole on them but still pretty complete. Now I have taken a couple of these desert pigs with lung shots in the past with SST and BT's and there were no lungs left.

I know bonded bulllets. Are designed to hold together, punch through bone and leave and exit wound, but I don't see them providing a fast kill. The deer I have killed with soft bullets I have pretty much always gotten exit holes and a quick kill.

Now on an elk I get it, its a tougher animal, but I would still want a fast kill, especially on this animal, and I dont see a bonded bullet doing this if they all (Accubond, Interbond, etc) behave the same.

Now I tried these Accubonds because I had some laying around and said why not, heard and read good things but now I'm convinced they don't do what I want. Animals don't bleed out as fast.

Just wanted to share my experience with them.

Stay safe all and enjoy your weekend

Most of my hunting has been done using the Accubond. Almost everyone that hunts with us has switched over to Accubond once they hunt with us. Our hunting has been mostly elk and some mule deer. We have been very successful and game has for the most part not gone anywhere. The ones that have I would blame more on shot placement than anything else. But that is usually the case with most bullets. But that is my 2 cents.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

My "shot placement" was, "perfect" 2 inches behind, the Crease and clipped the Clavicle on the far side with, Bullet under the skin after passing thru the edge of, the Shoulder blade at a slight angle ! I'm NOT that impressed with, the "performance" ! Yes, they Kill, but,.. ???
I did a LOT of research 6-7 years ago, on Bullets when, I bought my Tikka .270 wsm and I THOUGHT that, I had found, the "Holy Grail" in,. the AccuBond !

 

[LVJ76]

Most of my hunting has been done using the Accubond. Almost everyone that hunts with us has switched over to Accubond once they hunt with us. Our hunting has been mostly elk and some mule deer. We have been very successful and game has for the most part not gone anywhere. The ones that have I would blame more on shot placement than anything else. But that is usually the case with most bullets. But that is my 2 cents.

Thanks Cwray5.

If I was a shoulder or high shoulder shooter then a bonded bullet would provably work for me. But deer dont have enough meat for me to mess up a shoulder or two.

Elk might be a different story although a 180gr VLDH would to the job.

My "shot placement" was, "perfect" 2 inches behind, the Crease and clipped the Clavicle on the far side with, Bullet under the skin after passing thru the Shoulder blade ! I'm NOT that impressed with, the "performance" ! Yes, they Kill, but,.. ???

Agree, they do kill but very slowly at least for my double lung shot placement. The Javelina I shot took over 15 minutes to bleed out with both lungs hit, that is too slow of a death for me. I like lungs turned to slush or jello.

 

[Goldengun]

Wish I had known this before I invested in a butt load of 180grn NAB's for my 300wsm.
Both the 180 NAB and the 180 NBT shoot one hole 5 shot groups out of my 300wsm T3.
I own nothing in .308 bullets under 180 grains. Guess I look for some now before this deer season. Have killed 7 doe with 180 SGK and are absolutely 100% satisfied with their performance but none were shots over 300 yards.

180 AB are good to go out of your 300wsm for just about anything. I've shoot 150 and 165BT's and 165 and 180 AB's on whitetails from my 300wsm, zero problems with killing. Meat loss from BT's if you put them in the wrong place. I only use 180AB now, no need to go lighter, less damage than BT's and I'm ready for elk as well. I use my 260AI if I want to use a lighter bullet.

 

[Goldengun]

My "shot placement" was, "perfect" 2 inches behind, the Crease and clipped the Clavicle on the far side with, Bullet under the skin after passing thru the edge of, the Shoulder blade at a slight angle ! I'm NOT that impressed with, the "performance" ! Yes, they Kill, but,.. ???
I did a LOT of research 6-7 years ago, on Bullets when, I bought my Tikka .270 wsm and I THOUGHT that, I had found, the "Holy Grail" in,. the AccuBond !

Sounds to me like your 270wsm and 140AB's acted exactly like they should on elk. I've shot whitetails with bigger, heavier, and just as fast AB's and they sometimes still run a little ways. I'd never expect a elk to drop in his tracks with that shot even from 180AB out of my 300wsm, not a elk expert at all, but I've shot too many whitetails with various calibers and bullets and many still run before expiring. I've never been a bang flop mentality guy. I know when I shoot them their dead in short order, I don't mind a little hide and seek.

 

[Kimber7man]

My "shot placement" was, "perfect" 2 inches behind, the Crease and clipped the Clavicle on the far side with, Bullet under the skin after passing thru the edge of, the Shoulder blade at a slight angle ! I'm NOT that impressed with, the "performance" ! Yes, they Kill, but,.. ???
I did a LOT of research 6-7 years ago, on Bullets when, I bought my Tikka .270 wsm and I THOUGHT that, I had found, the "Holy Grail" in,. the AccuBond !

Wow

 

[Triple BB]

Love the Accubond. I've shot dozens of animals over the years with an 180 grn Accubond out of my 300 RUM at 3500 fps. Speed kills as I've never lost an animal. However I did shoot a mule deer last year with a 300 grn Berger Elite Hunter. There was an 6" hole on the exit side with some of the shredded organs hanging off the side. Guess mass kills too. Lol...

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Wow

YUP,.. to shoot an Elk, at 60-70 Yards and have it, stay on it's feet for, a couple of minutes with, a 140 gr bullet pushed by, 65 grains of powder at, 3,145 FPS,.. WAS,.. a pretty "Eye opening" experience ! I was sitting with, my XO Pack, on my chest/ legs , "supporting" the Rifles "Toe" and the forend rested in the Hunters Specialties "Sticks", as I was looking at, a Herd of Elk up the hill about, 250 yards away, when this one came off the Hill behind me and was looking to join the others that, we were glassing ! The Method, I use to shoot in the sitting position, was practiced repeatedly, during the Spring / Summer before, the season across a small Canyon 350- 375 yards away and I hit our 11" Dia. Steel Plate, 5 Times in a row at that distance, so the 60-70 yard shot was, a PRECISE, "Chip Shot" for, me.
Lots of People are VERY happy with, the AccuBonds "performance" and I'm NOT trying to, talk anyone out of, using them !
*** FOR ME *** however,.. I've decided to TRY, the 140 Berger, Classic Hunters, in my .270 WSM.
6-7 years ago, I talked myself out of them, due to rumors of, too much, "Meat Destruction" and "Fragments everywhere", stories !
Too many Hunters, are having good success with, Berger's for ME to,.. ignore !

 

[NorthernHunter67]

YUP,.. to shoot an Elk, at 60-70 Yards and have it, stay on it's feet for, a couple of minutes with, a 140 gr bullet pushed by, 65 grains of powder at, 3,145 FPS,.. WAS,.. a pretty "Eye opening" experience ! I was sitting with, my XO Pack, on my chest/ legs , "supporting" the Rifles "Toe" and the forend rested in the Hunters Specialties "Sticks", as I was looking at, a Herd of Elk up the hill about, 250 yards away, when this one came off the Hill behind me and was looking to join the others that, we were glassing ! The Method, I use to shoot in the sitting position, was practiced repeatedly, during the Spring / Summer before, the season across a small Canyon 350- 375 yards away and I hit our 11" Dia. Steel Plate, 5 Times in a row at that distance, so the 60-70 yard shot was, a PRECISE, "Chip Shot" for, me.
Lots of People are VERY happy with, the AccuBonds "performance" and I'm NOT trying to, talk anyone out of, using them !
*** FOR ME *** however,.. I've decided to TRY, the 140 Berger, Classic Hunters, in my .270 WSM.
6-7 years ago, I talked myself out of them, due to rumors of, too much, "Meat Destruction" and "Fragments everywhere", stories !
Too many Hunters, are having good success with, Berger's for ME to,.. ignore !

Sounds familiar, last fall I shot my first Moose, a 2-year-old Bull about 600lbs. A 278 yard shot with my 300wsm hand-loaded 180gr Accubond over 64gr of W760. He was facing me quartered slightly to his right,first shot entered low in the chest just left of his left leg, he stood and turned with his right broadside to me, second shot entered low behind his shoulder, I reloaded and was ready for the third shot when he fell onto his left side. When we opened him we found the first shot had dislocated the left shoulder and his heart and lungs were pulverized. He was standing dead.