Berger Prep for Terminal Performance

[Axl]

The best rework you could do to enhance berger bullet terminal performance is to turn a groove partially through the jacket on the ogive.

Devastating.

Vld style bullets go unstable and tumble inside an animal. Usually breaking off the nose. The scoring ensures this behavior.

Smashing bone also helps, but can't be guaranteed.

Possibly, but throughout many results I have witnessed, they preform very well as is. Including a 5 yr old Shiras moose double lung @ 276 yds w/ 180 HVLD out of a 28 Nos. that dropped stone dead in his tracks. Bullet jacket was found under the off side hide. It was the only moose out of many I have seen drop instantly with a lung shot. Have seen the same terminal performance on deer and elk with that bullet and the 30 cal 215. This past season I shot a big whitetail buck at 691 yds quartering away. Deer dropped in his tracks entire chest cavity was jello soup. entrance wound was about 1" bullet did not exit. 215 Berger 30 Nos. velo. at impact aprox. 2300 fps.
So all I do is check to be sure the tips are not plugged with polishing media

 

[CONatureBoy]

Encourage folks to watch Barbour Creek's YouTube videos of gel-block tests with Berger bullets. Most expand pretty fast in gel, but one in particular (the 6.5mm 156-grain EOL) travels over a foot into the gel before expanding. I love this bullet's high BC for my 264 Win Mag, so I drill it to 0.0465" and then trim the meplat, so it'll expand faster. I've done the same with Berger 7mm 190-grain target bullets, again because I love the high BC but also want quick expansion for my 280 AI. I did a gel-block test myself; the drilled target bullet started expanding at 1.5". Drilling and trimming take about a minute per bullet. (I've documented my procedure elsewhere. I'm sure you can Google it.) No loss of accuracy, no change in point of impact, negligible loss of BC. Otherwise, I've hunted the Berger 7mm 168-grain VLDH and the .308 210-grain VLDH for years. Everything I shoot with those bullets (elk and mule deer) drops on the first shot, DRT, no drilling or trimming required.

I just got my 6.5mm trimmer today. I trimmed a box of the 156-grain EOLs I previously drilled to 0.0465". I then measured bullet overall length for a random sample of 30 drilled and trimmed bullets, and also for a random sample of 30 factory bullets. Here are the summary statistics:

Factory
Min. Length 1.507
Max. Length 1.516
Mean Length 1.512
ES 0.009
SD 0.002

Drilled/Trimmed
Min. Length 1.494
Max. Length 1.498
Mean Length 1.495
ES 0.004
SD 0.001

Here's the F test comparing the two variances (squares of the SDs), concluding that the drilled/trimmed SD is indeed significantly smaller than the factory SD:

Here are the length histograms:

So drilling and trimming (the way I do it) reduces the variation in length by half. You can judge concentricity of the drilling from this picture (drilled in front, factory in back):

I'll shoot a 10-shot ladder this weekend (RL-33 from 74.2 to 75.1 grains, in 0.1-grain increments), and report results here. The results above suggest target shooters who trim meplats for accuracy are onto something.

 

[IHFarmer07]

The best rework you could do to enhance berger bullet terminal performance is to turn a groove partially through the jacket on the ogive.

Devastating.

Vld style bullets go unstable and tumble inside an animal. Usually breaking off the nose. The scoring ensures this behavior.

Smashing bone also helps, but can't be guaranteed.

Yeah, David Tubb has a tool to do that! I seen the price and was yeah, NO!!

 

[parshal]

I have one of his nose ring tools. It works. I measured the effect on three different bullets on an Oehler 89. Some depths increased BC and some decreases. I ringed some match bullets for my buddy's 308 that used on prairie dogs and he said they were devastating.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I have one of his nose ring tools. It works. I measured the effect on three different bullets on an Oehler 89. Some depths increased BC and some decreases. I ringed some match bullets for my buddy's 308 that used on prairie dogs and he said they were devastating.

Great to hear, I never doubted it wouldn't work its just out of my price range for me to have. I'd love to have one myself!!
That's awesome!! Although lol, whenever you use a .308 to shoot prairie dogs I can see the devastation whether or not the bullets have been ringed or not.

 

[parshal]

He said they were passing through before he did it.

I don't use the tool at all any more. I need to check with Tubbs to see what do to with it since I had to sign an agreement that I couldn't sell it.

 

[bigbulls]

Parshal why do you not use it anymore? Not shooting Berger's? or just not the bullets that need it?

 

[parshal]

It wasn't worth the effort. I don't use Bergers for hunting any more.

 

[IHFarmer07]

He said they were passing through before he did it.

I don't use the tool at all any more. I need to check with Tubbs to see what do to with it since I had to sign an agreement that I couldn't sell it.

Interesting!!

Yeah, I think I remember reading that when I looked at the tool on his site.


A person can use it on any bullet, it's not just for berger bullets. What do you use for hunting now?

 

[parshal]

@IHFarmer07, sent you PM so as not to derail this thread.

 

[bigbulls]

@IHFarmer07, sent you PM so as not to derail this thread.

Can you PM me also? just curious

 

[CONatureBoy]

Tubbs' tool looked like a great solution to me as well, but costly.

I just got my 6.5mm trimmer today. I trimmed a box of the 156-grain EOLs I previously drilled to 0.0465". I then measured bullet overall length for a random sample of 30 drilled and trimmed bullets, and also for a random sample of 30 factory bullets. Here are the summary statistics:

Factory
Min. Length 1.507
Max. Length 1.516
Mean Length 1.512
ES 0.009
SD 0.002

Drilled/Trimmed
Min. Length 1.494
Max. Length 1.498
Mean Length 1.495
ES 0.004
SD 0.001

Here's the F test comparing the two variances (squares of the SDs), concluding that the drilled/trimmed SD is indeed significantly smaller than the factory SD:

View attachment 437445

Here are the length histograms:

View attachment 437373
So drilling and trimming (the way I do it) reduces the variation in length by half. You can judge concentricity of the drilling from this picture (drilled in front, factory in back):

View attachment 437374
I'll shoot a 10-shot ladder this weekend (RL-33 from 74.2 to 75.1 grains, in 0.1-grain increments), and report results here. The results above suggest target shooters who trim meplats for accuracy are onto something.

I just did the gel test and load-development ladder with drilled and trimmed Berger 156-grain 6.5mm EOLs and Reloder 33 in my custom 264 Win Mag. I shot the gel at 200 yards with the first load in the ladder, a bit over 3,000 fps. Expansion started 1.5" into the gel, as you'd expect from a Berger hunting bullet. So far so good. The other nine shots of the ladder went into a 15/16" group at 100 yards. The last three shots found a node, and they grouped into 5/16". I had previously shot three unaltered EOLs into 1/4" at 100 yards, but all with the same powder charge. The last three shots today had charges in 1/10th-grain increments. So I'm confident the drilled/trimmed bullet will group as well, loading on the node, which for me was 75.0 grains at 3,150 fps.

This is the third bullet I've done this way. I'm confident now that I can get the rapid expansion I want while preserving or enhancing accuracy, starting with a bullet that expands too slowly to hunt.

 

[CONatureBoy]

Yeah, David Tubb has a tool to do that! I seen the price and was yeah, NO!!

Incidentally, the Berger 6.5mm 156-grain EOL has a hybrid ogive. They are not VLDs. See https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-156-grain-extreme-outer-limits-eol-elite-hunter/. And the Berger VLDs that I've shot into antelope, deer, and elk have always expanded rapidly on impact. They have never tumbled.

 

[codyadams]

Incidentally, the Berger 6.5mm 156-grain EOL has a hybrid ogive. They are not VLDs. See https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-5-mm-156-grain-extreme-outer-limits-eol-elite-hunter/. And the Berger VLDs that I've shot into antelope, deer, and elk have always expanded rapidly on impact. They have never tumbled.

I'm not challenging you in any way, simply discussing, so please don't take offense. How do you know they did not tumble? Did you recover any bullets? I recovered one 6.5mm 140 VLD from a bull elk shot at 713 yards, and it was obvious it did not tumble as there was no damage to the rear of the bullet. However, other than recovering a bullet, after shooting many animals with monos, bonded, standard cup and core as well as bullets that are specifically designed to tumble, it is honestly hard to tell the difference in a wound channel from a tumbling bullet to a bullet that does not tumble.

6.5mm 140 VLD from a 6x6 bull at 713 yards -

127 .277 bullet recovered from a cow elk shot at 680 yards, a bullet that is designed to tumble, and obviously did -

Damage inside the animals were very similar, large amounts of damage throughout. The difference is the latter (a monolithic bullet) bullet penetrated nearly the entire length of a large cow elk. The Berger was hanging in the skin in the exit wound.